Mythic+ a proper solution (and rant) for valor and upgrading

Justice Points

  • Justice points have a seasonal limit which is removed on week 3 of a new season.

  • 200 Justice points are rewarded at the end of each dungeon from keystones level +2-9.

  • Justice points are used to upgrade gear from 376 up to 405 item level.

  • Justice points can also be converted into Valor points, at a 5:1 ratio.

  • Beginning at keystone level 3, an additional 10 Justice points will be rewarded based on keystone level, for example, completing a +4 will reward 220, completing a +9 will reward 270.

Any previous expansions Justice points (if they still exist) are converted to a new currency which also used to exist: Badge of Justice.

Valor Points

  • Valor points have a seasonal limit which is removed on week 5 of a new season.

  • 200 Valor points are rewarded at the end of each dungeon from keystones level +10 and above.

  • Valor points are primarily used to upgrade gear from 405 up to 415 item level.

  • Valor points can also be used to upgrade gear from 376 up to 405 much quicker.

  • Beginning at keystone level 11, an additional 10 Valor points will be rewarded based on keystone level, for example, completing a +12 will reward 220, completing a +22 will reward 320.

And here’s the rant and reasoning, that I’m sure has been partially said before:

I, and many other players with similar play styles have noticed, or are beginning to notice a major shift in how M+ sign-ups and invites are handled in keystones ranging from +2 to +9, ever since the weekly valor limit was removed. I noticed this same thing last expansion as well. Sure, you can just say “make your own group”, or “make some friends” but the fact remains, that what was once easily accessible, enjoyable content for many, has once again become far less accessible overall for basically no reason, which makes the game worse as a whole for many players like myself.

High end players of course want to farm their valor in the most efficient way possible, I completely understand that, and I don’t blame them. It is a symptom related to a flaw in how the system was designed in the first place, especially in how bonus valor is earned.

Of course, this is greatly benefiting new players, or players that have little dungeon score, at least in the short term, because high end players know they can easily carry them and obtain the bonus valor, but again, this is a flaw in how the system was designed, bonus valor is earned in such a strange way, not only that, these high end players only need one player in the group with little to no score for that particular dungeon, so for players that have been actively participating in these +2-9 keystones since season one began are avoided almost entirely.

I consider myself fairly casual, I no longer have an interest in pushing end-game content to its limits, I no longer raid, or push keys above level 10. I enjoy playing alts (13 to be exact) in lower M+ dungeons, ranging from +2 to +9, and engaging in the outdoor world content. Just these two things are more than enough to keep me entertained, but then the valor cap gets removed and all goes to hell, I get a key for a dungeon I don’t like, and now, instead of quickly getting into a group for a dungeon I do like, and being able to exchange my key, I now have to either spend an hour getting declined for groups I got invited to instantly before the valor limit got removal, or spend sometimes 30+ minutes trying to find a tank for my own key that I’d rather not do to begin with, see the issue here? now imagine if you wanted to do that 12 more times that week, it’s incredibly demoralizing, in fact, I didn’t do a single M+ dungeon last week, and only did one dungeon the week before.

Everyone seems to be funneled towards specific dungeons for easier valor and vault counts, tanks rarely sign up for my keys because most of them are now only joining groups hosted by 2700+ score players that lower their keys to farm valor, because those tanks also want a quick run, and many players with a play style similar to mine are probably just logging on a lot less now, it’s near game breaking for anyone playing more than a handful of alts, and knowing I personally have to wait for next season to begin for the game to return back to normal makes me not want to log on anymore, I was having an absolute blast this expansion up until the valor limit was removed.

Now, I know this issue likely isn’t getting fixed this expansion, but hopefully Blizzard considers some logical changes for the valor and gear upgrade system for the next expansion, this is two expansions in a row with this issue.

I probably won’t be responding to any counter arguments here, I’m simply posting this here because I do believe it’s becoming a real issue that is affecting many players, seemingly for a reason that shouldn’t exist to begin with.

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Tbh, that still doesn’t solve the issue, just pushes the cutoff to be slightly higher that may not directly impact you.

All they really need to do is implement the level bonuses and it’ll solve a lot of it. If they really wanted to entirely solve it, just scale the upgrade costs and then make the key bonuses scale higher so still takes only a couple runs to get a higher upgrade doing higher keys but would take many lower keys to get a single one.

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There isn’t a problem that needs to be fixed with Mythic+.

2 Likes

TL/DR. (Obligatory letters required to post)

1st off the valor farming bubble has now pop and there’s probably a handful of people left doing it. So you’re now back to your regular people queues.

2nd as you said on your post. Start your own group. Key will fill eventually. You may just need to wait abit on some nights. I have never had a key that I’ve posted that never filled on my tank, dps or healer alts. Obviously the hardest part is finding a tank but because people dont gravitate to tanks alot due to tank players require you to actually know the dungeon.

3rd any suggestion on moving valor acquisition that it goes higher by the level of the dungeon will only push it to a new limit. It may not be on a +2 anymore but it’ll shift to probably between +7 to +10. The higher key is never a good source of farming valor because of how long you generally need to finish the dungeon.

Or they could maybe bump valor from 750 per week to 1000 per week and just never uncap it.

Hot take : We don’t need Valor upgrades with the new crafting system.

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Form your own group. Also the amount of “bonus valor” runs are non-existent compared to week 1 of uncapped valor. Plus, bonus valor runs were done at +2, which literatly no one other than fresh 70s and people who wanted bonus valor were doing.

I can also tell people are salty when they got declined to a bonus valor group.

oooor… clear a HOV 13, drop a “HOV13 token”, go to the dungeon quartermaster and buy an item off the HOV loot table at the ilvl of an M+13.

easy.

you have unique keys, for each dungeon, make unique rewards from each dungeon. at the end, two players at random get a token each.

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That is actually an interesting idea. Never heard this one before, but I like it.

well, it is removing a layer of RNG (namely, the undesirable drop chance). so it’ll never happen.

but there’s a RNG element in who wins the tokens already so…

in my mind it’s fair.
it will never happen. that double RNG is the bread and butter of 5man design.
but technically getting the correct key is a RNG element too… hmmmm

I think ideas like this would be fine to implement at the same time they uncap valor.

Like if you had bad luck first half of the season, you can atleast enjoy the last half.

There are much more important issues with m+.

But blizz is running out of time since most of the audience that are annoyed by weekly +20, affixes and loot scarcity left already.

So there is nothing to fix when just the elitists are playing

Key runs are at an all time high participation rate.

Seems you’re quite wrong about what is happening.

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Some sort of upgrade system or deterministic loot is needed specifically for trinkets.

Do we attribute this to keys being popular and fun engaging content or because due to the valor upgrade system the vault 8 rewards system and them also giving primal infusion for crafting? Basically are people doing keys cause they are fun or because its the path of least resistance for gearing?

No more limits. No. No valor cap, no justice cap, no more damn time gating. It’s stupid, unfun and completely terrible design. If your idea of design involves time gating, that means your design is terrible and needs to be reconstructed from the ground up.

Making the path of least resistance for gear even less resistant? Sounds like a horrible balance nightmare. Or did you forget about EN? That was a mess due to mplus gearing

The main problem with valor is people can run easier content to get better gear than they deserve from such content. Your suggestion still allows people to farm +2 keys to get 405 item level; they don’t deserve it. The 400+ ilvl players would farm +10, which is an improvement but still far from ideal (appropriately geared players would be unable to get into +10 groups).

If we were to keep a valor-like system, the valor rewards need to scale better with difficulty; somewhere around 15% more valor per difficulty level. This would work out to a +20 key giving about 4x as much valor as a +10 key. Additional adjustments should be made for the tiers where an affix is added.

Key Valor
2 200
3 230
4 265
5 304
6 350
7 402
8 463
9 532
10 612
11 704
12 809
13 930
14 1070
15 1231
16 1415
17 1627
18 1872
19 2152
20 2475

Not talking about high keys.