Mythic 0 Changes are ridiculous

[Tikarü-area-52]

@Meviren-mankrik

You expect people to go from doing a heroic dungeon to this?

No, they expect people to gear up and upgrade their gear from heroics, THEN do M0.

[Hohnzo-dalaran]

@Nikolo-proudmoore

But yes, heroics do not prepare players for M0 in gear or knowledge, which has created a very unpleasant experience for a lot of players

People wanted opportunities to earn gear in content that was not timed. This appearss to be the current solution. I think a better solution would have been to allow players to check timed vs untimed for keys and just adjust the loot a little bit. (e.g. a 9 timed == a 10 untimed)

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Nasure-moon-guard

My HPS was sitting between 170k-200k the entire time while I was providing as much DPS as I could, and our DPS was all doing over 100k

DPS seems quite low for a 0.
Your HPS seems quite high.

Sounds a lot like not using interrupts / failing mechanics / not using defensives.

@Nikolo-proudmoore

Two reasons off the top of my head. Bad RNG. Not enough time to constantly farm heroics, crests, or flightstones.

Weekly events are not RNG
You don’t need to farm crests nor flightstones nor heroics. You get all of that stuff from simply playing. Again, no reason by this point they can’t be 490+

@Nikolo-proudmoore

Again, heroic ilvl…but with full tier sets along and multiple BiSs. This is a silly argument that people keep repeating because it is not the same as mismatched heroic dungeon gear

BiS from last season doesn’t do anything when it’s 30 ilvls below the content you’re working on. And why have I run Heroics and seen people in there with 2/4 sets from S3 and S4. They’re not mutually exclusive. Trying to isolate one small demographic for an umbrella argument isn’t a good take.

@Nasure-moon-guard

Didn’t see a single green circle. I’ll go watch a youtube video, I suppose. Shouldn’t have to, but it seems like that’s intended.

After little adds, boss throws out a “big add” - kill it and it drops a green circle for you to stand in. Standing in circle when it expires heals everyone inside it and cleanses them from any bleeds they may have acquired.

[Selliane-stormrage]

Even with the changes, 0s are not difficult.

Just take the time to breathe a little, touch some grass, makes some friends and have fun tackling a challenge. All that is required is to do mechanics at their basic level, that is it.

@Nasure-moon-guard

Didn’t see a single green circle. I’ll go watch a youtube video, I suppose. Shouldn’t have to, but it seems like that’s intended.

It is not, make sure you don’t have projected textures turned off, I promise you the circle is there.

I am more than happy to help anyone with mechanics, let me know.

[Nasure-moon-guard]

@Grizzle-eredar

After little adds, boss throws out a “big add” - kill it and it drops a green circle for you to stand in. Standing in circle when it expires heals everyone inside it and cleanses them from any bleeds they may have acquired.

I wonder if it was missed because my healing is often green circles. I’m going to look into it. I need one more friggen m0 for my weekly, and it’s super frustrating because I don’t want to have to pug it. lol

[Duffle-frostmourne]

@Nikolo-proudmoore

I would argue that 480 (the highest ilvl you can reasonably achieve from farming heroics) is not high enough for M0s.

Like, not high enough to make up for mistakes for an average player?

Or not high enough for most?

Yeah, 0s are harder but it hasn’t felt like a wall in any runs I’ve been in. The stakes are still pretty low and you can wipe without impacting your loot or next run.

[Captsjw-illidan]

This warrior went from 440 to 483 in a day, i did lfr and then made my own groups for M zero all pugs. I dont have 4 set, i dont have the lego, i still have heroic dungeon gear. Mythic zeros are not difficult they just require a completely basic understanding of wow pve, it isnt asking much. Git gud is the only worth while advice you whiners need.

[Hohnzo-dalaran]

@Meviren-mankrik

You expect people to go from doing a heroic dungeon to this? Yeah okay. This is not helping your game mode.

They expect it with upgraded heroic gear, I believe, rather than a mish mash of gear with a few heoric pieces like it used to be. It’s a legit progression, now.

[Opalunaiya-bleeding-hollow]

@Meviren-mankrik

Okay your experiment failed.
Harder is not funner. This feels absolutely terrible.

This is a game. Games are not about fun. They are about developers pushing people to play longer so they end up paying more.

@Meviren-mankrik

You expect people to go from doing a heroic dungeon to this?

Yes. They expect people to make the decision to think and learn like an elite min maxer with decades of experience doing the hardest content in the game.

@Meviren-mankrik

This is not helping your game mode.

They think that not only is this possible, but it will result in a new renaissance of WoW, returning it to some imagined position as “the hardest game in the genre”, which will flood it with tens of millions of new elite players who were previously unaware of its existence or waiting for the purge of casuals before they would consider playing it.

@Meviren-mankrik

But M0? Yeah okay. You’re really pushing this MoP remix thing aren’t ya?

Absolutely totally. Both Cata classic and MoP remix are coming up, and they will need to report large participation numbers to justify the cost of development they spent on them.

@Hohnzo-dalaran

They expect it with upgraded heroic gear, I believe, rather than a mish mash of gear with a few heoric pieces like it used to be. It’s a legit progression, now.

Given the number of flightstones and crests that drop in a heroic dungeon, how many dungeons will it take to fully upgrade that gear as far as a player in heroic dungeon gear can without doing harder content?

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Duffle-frostmourne

Like, not high enough to make up for mistakes for an average player?

But it is though.

The previous tiers gear is enough to advance to the next

460 → 476 → 493

@Nasure-moon-guard

I wonder if it was missed because my healing is often green circles. I’m going to look into it. I need one more friggen m0 for my weekly, and it’s super frustrating because I don’t want to have to pug it. lol

Demascuss#1248

And entirely different green circle. This one is 100% apparent

https://youtu.be/y6gExt7xaVk?t=72 timestamped for the beginning of the fight

[Tahonto-malganis]

What are people complaining about… I just started pushing and it’s pretty easy.

[Nasure-moon-guard]

I honestly feel like if mechanics were telegraphed better, if they were designed in a way that didn’t assume everyone was researching each fight ahead of time and running DBM, that things would be much better for most folks.

[Grizzle-eredar]

You able to hop in game right now? I’ve got some free time and can run AA with ya real quick. You’ll see how telegraphed it is

[Nasure-moon-guard]

@Grizzle-eredar

And entirely different green circle. This one is 100% apparent

I watched the video. You think that little 5-10% opacity circle is apparent with everything else going on? There’s no way I’d see that through my own spell effects while trying to keep the group alive. No way.

I see it now, and I’d try to look out for it, but that is so incredibly subtle compared to our own spell effects and it’s incredibly brief.

[Breadisfunny-turalyon (Breadisfunny)]

Heroic
    The tuning and rewards of this difficulty are increasing to be equivalent to a baseline Mythic (Mythic 0) dungeon in the current system.
    **Mythic difficulty changes and mechanics will not be present in this difficulty.**
    This remains a queueable experience.

from the article itself.

[Froasted-area-52]

Why’s every good change in this game met with some bad actors crying for a reversal? If m0s are hard for you, this type of gaming is not for you. And that’s ok.

They cannot design every single mode to both not be braindead easy for competitive players but also not too difficult for the worst gamers alive. Where is this outrage over mythic raiding difficulty? Over dark souls difficulty? Over the difficulty of driving a race car?

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Nasure-moon-guard

I watched the video. You think that little 5-10% opacity circle is apparent with everything else going on? There’s no way I’d see that through my own spell effects while trying to keep the group alive. No way.

So the video doesn’t do it justice. I posted it before watching the video honestly.

[Duffle-frostmourne]

@Grizzle-eredar

But it is though

I’m trying to figure out what he meant.

I’ve done 430-440 on my priest up to heroic.

Heroic to m0 on my 465 veng dh (4set s3) and that was starting to get spice.

Heroic to m2 on this monk here. There were some pulls where I was in serious danger, like pulling the entire tree boss room in academy. Purple stagger and all cds blown, running away crying at 480 ilvl (s3 gear)

But nothing ever felt like a wall.

Edit: and the problem bits were all me being an idiot, anyway lol

[Remi-dalaran (Remi)]

In what world is M0 “hard”? I’m starting to think a lot of you are just complaining for attention and to start controversy. I can clear a M0 with my toes and blindfolded. You can S key through those places at 470. You can get to 485 super easy right now. If you can’t clear a M0 at 480+, I don’t know what to tell you.

I like the changes.

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Breadisfunny-turalyon

from the article itself.

Tuning is numbers
Tuning is difficulty

They even add a visual aid showing you where the new m0s DIFFICULTY ranks in comparison to S3.

So as far as how hard things hit and how much life they have, they’re on par with old m0.

@Duffle-frostmourne

But nothing ever felt like a wall.

Because it’s not. The crowd crying about the wall are people who are used to having gear that auto-attack knocks things over. With the change, they need to gear up before that happens, yet they refuse to do it. So now it’s “not enough from Heroic”