Do Resto Shamans bring improved Windfury Totems?
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This talent is not as good as people believe. The main thing about this talent is that it increases WF totem attack power. The thing is the only reason you use this totem is for warriors for extra rage generation. The slightly more damage per windfury they do would not increase their rage generation. The two talent points could be moved elsewhere such as guardian totems that reduce the cooldown of grounding totem to help with spells.
(Taken from classic wowhead, using a quick 5 second search into google.)
To be honest, I think you are completely missing two very important points:
- Yes, it turns out that meme specs were bad and you wasted a ton of time and energy.
- Mostly, I’m legitimately curious how you will fare once you decide to roll a viable damage spec. Will you actually enjoy it? Will you enjoy not being disrespected every time you want a good piece of gear? Will you in fact top the charts?
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They can.
Also with full naxx bis it comes out to about 10 more dps for fury warriors. That includes world buff scaling and stuff. The talent is legitimately close to worthless.
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I always encourage people not to roll meme specs, and it’s not because I’m a jerk who wants to gatekeep how people play a 15 year old game. But it’s because it genuinely sucks not to have anything good to contribute to your raid and it engenders resentment from the rest of the raid. Just play a genuinely good class.
When it comes to gear, you really can’t justify giving a BiS melee DPS piece to a class that has so so much more potential to perform with the item and will get more mileage out of it. But screwing you out of gear on account of OS or PVP items is silly.
Regarding Nightfall, the proc rate is complete trash compared to private servers and not even worth using at all in my opinion.
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Don’t forget that Shaman have something like a 8% proc rate on Nightfall, while Warriors are closer to 20%.
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I couldn’t have said it better myself. Thanks.
I’m in a guild with 3 raid teams, all of which smash BWL around the 60min mark each week. Each team has exactly 1 ret pally, which we allowed (at the time) because we knew they would be swinging the nightfall. We even prio’ed Hand of Rag to them as a consolation for their dirty work.
The proc rate is garbage, and its even worse when its being used by a ret paladin, that basically can only stand there and ‘right-click’ most of the time. Even a warrior spamming hamstring is 3x better at this than a ret pally.
So now its back to… why bring a ret, exactly?
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Warrior 
Give it to a hunter, Wing Clip is insane for NF. The downside is, your hunter will cancel their sub before next raid.
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According to the forums here nightfall doesn’t even work right now well enough to justify the materials. We have one in guild, it’s on an arms warrior and you’re not kidding about how bad the damage is, he does less dps with that axe while doing his whatever it is rotation than I do with only auto attack, not joking not even slice and dice and and I still do more than that garbo weapon. That’s got me thinking why is it so popular when it’s output is so horrible and the chance to proc is so bad like according to the forums maybe 1 proc per 2 min fight and that can according to the forums get also pushed off the debuff list.
Should be “Just play a genuinely good spec.” All classes are genuinely good.
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Bugged PS rates created a meta that people are slow to shift away from.
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We had an Orc off-off-offtank use it and spam Hamstring, and he had Windfury too of course. Literally the best wielder you could possibly ask for, and you would be better off just equipping actual DPS weapons.
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As shadow priest i even myself feel bad for stealing loot from real casters like warlocks and mages. (And my second 60 is warlock because of that feeling). And also very very useless. Both my lock and SP at 320 +spd right now and lock due to lifetap does several times more damage. (+aoe ofc)
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Hunters have more than double the proc rate than a Warrior. More than five times that of a Shaman. I do agree that it’s not worth.
Edit: Hey, I know you 
Wing Clip spam and Hamstring spam are equivalent aren’t they? Assuming you have the PVP set bonus that reduces the rage cost enough to make it spammable every GCD.
Math has been done, and its generally a dps loss for the raid group for a hunter to swing Nightfall over attacking normally with a ranged weapon.
Nightfall only makes sense for ret paladins/enhancement shaman whose dps output is bad enough to warrant it.
If you can spam it indefinitely, I suppose that they are similar. Hunter is usually suggested the best option because they give up less than the Warrior would while still providing True Shot and Wolf Howl.
The proc chance is far lower though. There really isn’t a place for ret/enhance at all in raids in a competitive setting.
I know that NF itself isn’t worth losing a single player’s dps, we were discussing who does it best.
Do you know how the math changes by Naxx, when Hunter’s DPS falls behind Mage and Warlock by a considerable amount?
Ehh, this game is 15 years old. Everything is known. Why would you roll RET again after knowing it is bad? Don’t tell me it’s because you wanted to prove people something, you just hoped you’d be carried better now than 15 years ago.
This is the reason I rolled horde, so I wouldn’t have to deal with idiots playing ret in my raids/pvp groups
A lot of people unfamiliar with classic seemed to believe prior to release that “unplayable” in classic means what it does in BFA.
Na friends, you ain’t looking at a 15% dps difference here lol.
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I am aware that hunter tapers off at Naxx, although even at Naxx I’d argue hunter dps is still considerably better than most of the meme specs.
But I am not arguing for personal dps, but raid dps as a whole (though the two are related.) Should a raid group bring a ret paladin, their average contribution would be higher with Nightfall than without. This is not true for a hunter/warrior, even with higher NF uptime. For the warrior, their weapon is everything, so wielding Nightfall is a significant dps loss for them. For the hunter, merely meleeing and spamming wing clip is a sizable dps loss compared to our normal rotation.