Anyone who’s “fun” cannot handle losing shouldn’t be playing videogames, much less pvp.
Every char I have ever rolled was on PVP server cause yes i wanted to pvp while playing normal pve parts of the game. I expected that is the reason others played on pvp servers as well. SO I have and do attack many chars close to my gear level. Never found enjoyment smashing lower levels or under geared new players, but if we look even close to being on equal terms Im testing your pvp reactions.
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Excuse me?
I never once said that PVP is bullying.
I never accused anyone who enjoys PVP to be a bully.
I said that I, personally, feel like a bully, and I was asking for advice as to how to ‘deal’ with that sense of guilt so I can actually enjoy PVP.
Kindly take your words back.
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Why would you feel bad? I mean I’m assuming you’re talking about playing on a pvp server. People literally roll on PvP servers because they want to pvp. I HIGHLY doubt the majority feel bad.
Worst case scenario some salty kid breaks his keyboard after blunting your sword with his face.
The only scenario I could understand is worrying about the people who roll to play with friends in spite of not enjoying pvp. But those guys wont start crap with you so we’re back at square one.
There is absolutely no reason to feel bad about wrecking someone who jumps you. They asked for it and even most likely wanted it. Your arm flailing is entertainment to them.
You know that medias used the same logic to say that people who played violent video games were most likely to be violent in real life? That has been debunked by multiple studies that it had no correlation.
So I guess for you, anyone also who enjoys Battle Royals and FPS are crazy shooters/psychopath in real life? Gee …
Well, going by your post history, you seem to enjoy making snarky comments and taking jabs at people whenever possible. No idea why killing people in PvP would bother you, honestly seems like a troll thread.
This is false equivalence to what they’re suggesting. They’re not advocating to take PvP out. They’re advocating against direct griefing of denial of play. Camping for hours, day after day. Insta-killing quest NPCs so that leveling players can’t complete those quests. The real griefers have ways around being avoided. Either friends on the other side that spy or alternate accounts. These are the things that are much less acceptable.
Again, they’re not advocating against ‘violence in video games’, they’re advocating against ‘purely and intentionally ruining someone’s experience over an extended period of time.’ They are VERY different things.
(To Gizelda: If I misrepresented your point in any of that, please do correct me. This was my take, at least, and I hope I didn’t muck it up.)
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Lol. Its a game, we kill people in a game cause its illegal irl duh.
That’s how mafia works.
But your definition of griefing might not be the same as mine. And our definition might be different from the next guy’s definition.
There is no clear definition of what is griefing. If an NPC is killable, why should I refrain from doing it if I want to? If a guy kills my alt several time, I will log in and camp him for a little. Is it griefing if it’s vengeance and he did it himself?
PvP servers allow camping, ganking, NPC killing. If you level a character on it, expect for it to happen.
That was his/her original quote, hence my answer. Because you gank, camp (or “grief”), you are maladjusted IRL.
I gank, camp, kill NPCs because I am allowed to and I expect the other faction to do so. Sure it’s annoying when it happens to you but it also makes the server feel alive, engaging.
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If pvp makes you feel guilty then it sounds like you aren’t cut out for pvp. In this competitive setting the entire point is to try to win. If an enemy player kills you they aren’t going to feel guilty about it. It’s very unlikely.
Only time I’d feel guilty is farming people in world pvp that are trying to get something done while I’m just being a pest. I can relate cause sometimes I just want to get stuff done. Also if I kill a low level player I will avoid hunting them down repeatedly cause I don’t want to grief them. I generally don’t kill someone more than once or twice in the world unless I have to or unless we’ve grown a mutual hate for one another.
Got just about zero empathy in BGs though. Although if we are farming their GY until they start leaving or stop spawning then I like to just end the game as soon as possible.
Edit: If it helps you ‘cope’ with BG pvp just think that for every kill you make you are putting your team one step closer to victory. So if you view the other team losing as bully just view your team winning as the opposite. It balanced out and you should care way more about your team regardless.
I agree, there isn’t. But it tends to lend toward being egregious, which is why I outlined a few examples I thought might be griefing. Which were related to actions taking place over a length of time. Camping for 10-15 minutes? That’s fine. 30? Still probably fine. An hour? Getting a bit annoying. Beyond that? Well, it should have been dealt with by then, and I can’t really feel sympathy. However, if it’s targetted, constant, and overwhelming, that’s a bit much.
It depends on the intent, which is hard to prove. But if it’s clear they JUST want that PLAYER to suffer, that’s where I think it’s going too far. Killing for fun/wpvp/revenge(including revenge camping etc) is fine in my books. Encouraged, even.
Clarifying this point is where the intent comes to play. Is it a quest giver with 5 lowbies sitting around it trying to turn in that quest? Probably shouldn’t. Are you allowed? Yup. Am I going to insult you for it? Heck no. If you do it for hours, I’d be the one coming to camp you in response ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
Expect it, yes. Definitely. But know how to react, and when it becomes too much. When all of the responses are shown to not work (pvp response, leaving the area, stopping playing for a little while and coming back later), then it becomes ‘griefing’, in my opinion. That player is specifically targetting you, and thus is trying to specifically make you suffer. It takes a lot for me to call something true griefing.
IF, and only if, we get to the point of significant cause of suffering, there are some thing wrong there. I won’t throw terms or disorders around, but it’s not okay. Virtual worlds are more of a bridge than a platform(In an MMO sense). It bridges people together, for better or worse. But when someone’s trying to burn that bridge, they get everything coming to them (Even if it’s a report to Blizz - cause they won’t punish anything that isn’t legitimate greifing. Heck, in Legion days, I recall a streamer that would get sniped daily, for months at a time, sent multiple reports, and Blizz told them PvP happened because there were other options for them to do. They ended up doing mostly instanced stuff for a while, but yeah. Even Blizz has a pretty generous line as to what’s allowed.)
All in all, I mostly agree with you. It’s less about nitpicking the situation, and more seeking intent. Are they doing it because the aspect of the game is fun, or are they doing it to put people heck for a long period of time (Days/months without allowing them to do -anything-).
I get that way if it’s an absolute stomp where i knew they just weren’t anywhere as good a player i as was. I’ll try to emote to them to get across that i’m not interested in fighting any further and salute them.
It might not be the most common feeling during pvp, but it means you’ve got a big heart, and that’s pretty rad.
How do I put this delicately . . . ?
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Go on
Shall we just say that hanging out “on” what used to be may be easier than hanging out “in.”
You and I likely agree about what “griefing” is in game. And you and I probably would agree that true griefing is rare.
I’ve been ganked in game. I’ve been camped, but only when I have been stirring up trouble myself and the defenders, when they arrived, decided I needed killing and needed to stay dead. That is not griefing.
Is killing NPCs, even quest givers, griefing? Maybe, but I’ve never seen it. Blizzard has taken steps over time to make overdoing that kind of thing more difficult. The town guards are tougher and DKs are an unfortunate attempt to keep the game flowing for others. So as far as I’m concerned killing NPCs would have to be coordinated and continued for a very long time before I would consider it griefing - and by then Blizzard would have likely stepped in.
Are there players who are truly trying to inflict cruelty in the game. Certainly. There are personality disordered people everywhere in life. You might encounter one in game.
There are also other types of personality disorders. There are the borderlines who can’t seem but to over-dramatize everything, who need constant support and drain everyone around them. There are the very confused players who engage in World of Warcraft and are outraged that their priorities aren’t respected by the other players - when it it their own misconception of how the game is structured that leads to their confusion.
These confused or outraged or personality disordered players likely need help. Maybe they will get it someday, but they are not going to find it in this game and are not going to find it in this forum. They are going to be ground up in life. And this game, in it’s full cartoonish splendor, will grind them up and spit them out.
If a player can’t abide the fantasy hardships that come with WoW gameplay. If a player is in constant need for emotional support. They clearly won’t find it in WoW. Likely they burn out other players while burning out themselves. Those most shrill about suffering the insults and hurts of WoW gaming, are also the ones who can’t seem to stay in a guild. No guild wants to be constantly drained by babies either.
The beauty of WoW is that we can engage in all sorts of behaviors that are not allowed in real life. We don’t have to be our brother’s keeper. We don’t have to let others drain us.
WoW wouldn’t have defined a Rogue class if they didn’t understand that ganking is a legitimate and honorable way to play the game. That rogue, who skulks around in slow motion, unseen, is designed to gank.
It is far kinder to suggest that a person who can’t seem to leave their emotions behind when they enter Azeroth might be better off not playing this game. It does no one a service to try to nurse them through. They aren’t going to find support. The other players are going to just amp up their contempt. And this game will hurt far more than it heals.
It’s those sad player’s who are really trying to ruin everyone else’s fun. Leave them at the login screen. WoW is not intended to be therapy.
Ten years ago, when I was a teenager, I use to gank all day every day. Now that I’m older, I’ve grown soft. I feel bad when I kill someone for no reason.
If you are farming people 10 levels below you…yea, you maybe a bully (and if you are using stealth…you are cowardly bully). In a BG or fighting someone your own level open world…:we cool"…lol.
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I’d say so, yeah.
Agreed
Not unless it’s prolonged, and Blizz does punish those folks (or at least ports them away from the site and gives them their warning)
Exactly. And when it comes to it happening in WoW, there are usually good natured folks that are around to remedy the situation.
While somewhat true, it isn’t always the case. My point on these forums is either to offer a different perspective to debates/discussions/arguments for those that might not see them - or in failing that, presenting a calm, readable alternative for those not involved in the conversation to view. I know that I won’t convince everyone I talk to, or ‘win every argument’. I merely hope to spread around more amicable relations and situations between people. Life’s too short to hang onto negativity. Better to embrace good feelings with others.
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