cringe
This made me chortle.
Aloud.
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Who cares?
Those are the people you just dont let into raids to begin with.
8f you make it known that you are a casual guild who allows players to play selfish specs that will underperform, but be treated as equals with regards to loot, then they probably wonât join to begin with.
lol, classic is HaRd.
You are the type of person heâs trolling to begin with.
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Sure, itâs as hard as you decide to make it. I have no issues personally with ret pallies or enhancement shaman in the raids groups that I roll with, but I am also not trying for the best parses or times.
If you read what Iâm saying, I think youâll find that Iâm simply worried that people new to WoW or new to Classic will get the impression that if they work hard, Ret/Enh will be âhigh damageâ classes, when even if you are parsing the best possible, you will be performing worse that the lowest performing Rogues or Warriors (and, by a lot).
Yes, I think it is selfish to call others elitists or say Classic is easy, when you insist on playing a spec (on purpose) that is getting carried by the rest of your group. And then, to shame others if they do not give equal priority on loot.
It would only be getting carried if it was required to clear the content which its not. Seeing as you can still clear the content with a raid full of green parses no one is actually being carried.
Trust me, Iâm not a min maxer but I do enjoy sometimes getting bigger numbers so I can produce bigger numbers than other players numbers so that my number is orange compared to your number being green. I was in a speed clearing guild for 3 months, and doing speed runs week after week is just not worth it to me anymore.
I just dont think its healthy for the game for everyone to expect the highest numbers from people when the raids require small numbers to begin with.
Sure. But, letâs say I want to play my âNaked Mageâ build, which uses only weapons, rings, trinkets, neck, and hidden helm/cloak⊠Do you think Iâd be doing less DPS than a Ret Paladin?
Should I be choosing to raid like that if itâs what I want? Does that justify me insulting anyone who questions me by calling them elitists?
Is that not being carried?
Likewise. Itâs a lot of effort for very little reward, imo, and not as fun as just kicking back with some friends, and laughs.
Neither do I, but insisting on using a decent leveling spec that is really bad for raiding, when there are much better options is selfish.
Is it OK, or possible with some raid groups who donât mind you being selfish, or who simply benefit from your charming personality in Discord? Sure.
a 40 man raids just need around 20 or even less to be completed ( at least current content is)
âHURRRRR A COMBAT ROUGUE DOES MORE PARSES THAN A LOLRET IN MOLTED BORE LOL LOLâ
200IQ observation that literally nobody is disputing
I think we just differ in opinion of whats selfish in raiding. I like your naked mage example but thats not even close to what were talking about lol. If you enjoy being a ret paladin and prepare for raids just like everyone else. I donât think thatâs selfish. Everything isnt about the min/max culture of raiding. Its a big game. That same ret paladin might like farming and playing PvP as a melee with his time (which is the majority of game time) outside of raiding.
Itâs more selfish to me to expect that person to farm and respec every week just to adhere to your meta of raiding than it is for that person to raid as ret. If they show up on time, bring whatever consumes/buffs your raid requires and bid on the same gear as other melee dps. There really shouldnt be an issue imo. Giving that onslaught girdle to a warrior with less dkp (or whatever you use) over the ret pally who has earned his dkp with time and effort is the actual selfish move imo.
Depends on your guild of course. We dont have pallies but we do have an enhance shammy or 2. We have one feral druid (granted heâs an alt) and if these guys show up and earn DKP they can spend it on thier MS over OS just like the rest of the raid does.
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DPS-wise? Sure it is.
Even figuratively, anyone who says, âI want to do DPS in a raid setting. Oh I know, Iâll roll ret.â Is purposely gimping their DPS⊠Just like a naked mage.
Look, the issue that I have with it isnât whether Classic is difficult, or raids are hard, or even whether it matters much if you give BRE to the ret paladin, when the hardcore PVP warrior who is tanking for your raid, and respeccâing a couple times a week really, really wants it.
My issue is that people are spreading lies about Ret performance. The nonsense that Ret DPS is decent if youâre good, is simply untrue: It is horrible DPS, even if you are the best Ret Paladin possible.
If you and your raid team are OK with that, thatâs fine. For those genuinely asking, as the OP of this thread seems to be, letâs not lie to them.
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Itâs really not though. You donât have math for this.
I get that the gap between a warrior dps and a ret dps is significant. You could also use that same argument to never bring more than 2 hunters to a raid lol. Seeing as the difference between a 98th percentile hunter and 98th percnetile warrior is roughly double the dps.
That would be kinda be a prick move imo. Structure your raid within reason obviously. Dont be a prick just to min/max though.
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Well, generic off brand Sephiroth Night Elf, the whole gimmick of the OP seems to be some vendetta against mages. Im just pointing out why heâs probably so mad about us, and continuing to rub in his face how irrelevant we make his class in the DPS role.
I would just like to point out that Classic raids are faceroll and unless you can do them without any warriors or mages at all then it isnât in the least bit interesting. More meme specs, less max-dorks thinking they are good on their mages and warriors. Anyone with a face can roll it across the keyboard and play those boring classes.
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Dude, DI kills you and bubbles another player.
But itâs good to see other raids also using a Feral Tank.
We use a Boomkin too.
I totally agree with this, personally, because that suits my preference. I donât, however, disparage people for preferring to min/max, parse high, or focus on clear times.
There are many ways we can play WoW Classic, and a lot of them work.
However! And this is very important for anyone considering rolling a Paladin for the sole purpose of being Ret in a raid group, if you are the type of person who cares at all about DPS meters or parses, and/or wish to roll with people who do, you will be disappointed.
Knowing that, if you decide to do it, donât blame anyone who doesnât bend over to support you.
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Itâs more selfish that you demand someone play something you want them to play when they pay there sub to play how and what they want with whom
Hey, play whatever you want. If you want to be a melee hunter with no pet, go for it.
If you happen to find a raid group who will accept that, then great 
Letâs not pretend though that that will be good DPS if youâre good. Letâs not lie to people who are asking.
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