My CRAZY take on MMR or ladder and PvP

Don’t have players lose points on losses. Have players only gain points from wins. Any system built where you have to climb atop or over others to reach high rating or to succeed REQUIRES a large player base to function properly. When many people don’t play or participate in pvp in a given season, ratings feel deflated in the current system. The current system also discourages players from sticking with it and playing more games, where I argue the only way to improve in pvp is to play, and play MANY games. In seasons, there are just not many people to climb over to get where you want to go, resulting in facing multi-glads at 1800+ ratings in many brackets in TWW. The old system was fine when participation was high enough to support it, but clearly pvp is dying or at minimum, struggling to attract (and MAINTAIN) new players.

Prestige or titles or achievements in this new system could be earned based on number of games played to certain ranks or levels, such as 100 or less games to reach 2400 rating. This does several things that I think are necessary for the health of the PVP mini-game in wow (mini in comparison to the juggernaut of pve that is)…

First, it gets people to play and make or feel consistent progress towards goals or rewards in pvp. People invest HOURS into wow, and if they feel it’s wasted time, they will do something else. This new system means people can grind out pvp rewards like other rare mounts in the game. You never top out rating or get stuck, because you only gain points on wins, and don’t lose points on losses. THIS IS HUGE, as the best way to get better at PVP is to play PVP, and to play a LOT of pvp games. My friends and I often play many classes in a season, and we always joke that it takes 1000 games across pvp formats to get good at X or Y spec. If it takes you 500 games to get to 2400, so be it, but that means that person played 500 games and provides life to the pvp community by participating regularly across those ratings to get there.

Second, and relatedly this new system would increase numbers of games played for most players, especially those that win roughly 50% of games (which blizzard is trying to do with current MMR), as each win moves progress forward, without issues with losing points. This is apparent in relation to current MMR, as I always see people cmplaining that they win games but don’t gain rating, or lose more points on losses than gaining on wins (again, due to their MMR lowering with repeat loses).

Third, I think MMR should remain, for example, as a way to control how many points you earn from said wins. If you are 1600 cr actual rating, playing a blitz game at 2500MMR, and win, you should get more than 23 points on that win. Basically, the bigger the gap between current rating and personal mmr, the more points you can potentially net (up to a max, say, I don’t know, 100 points), maybe similar to how CR gains work before 1400 or whatever when point gains get limited significantly. Here, you can set a minimum gain from wins too, like 5 points minimum for a win. Rough math… at 5 points a win, that’s 480 wins for 2400. That’s not unreasonable for most people in a season of pvp.

In conclusion, a system like this for pvp would get more people to play, get them to play more games, get them to continue playing pvp, and give more people (especially that all important 1400-1800 bulge in the player base) a meaningful feeling of climbing towards goals or rewards.

Again, in pve you don’t lose points when you fail an M+ or when you die in a raid. You rez, dust off, maybe vent a bit, and then try again. Pvp should adopt this model, and not rely on a system that requires you to climb over others as the only way to climb ratings.

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Uh no. While inflation and mmr needs adjustments, never losing means well be 100k cr in no time

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Just as easy to cap out the new system I’m suggesting, like for example you start gaining only 5 pts a win over 2200cr or something. Again, the reality is rating doesn’t actually matter, people having fun and making progress does matter, especially if the goal is the health of the game.

We need more people to try and then continue to play pvp games. This reduces wait times, but also grows the community. People will get better by playing many many games. So design the system to enable playing many games a means to get to their goals.

Rating does matter, its a measure of skill.

If youre 3k right now, youre probably an AWC contender.

If youre 2.1, not so much.

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I didn’t read the whole thing, but if people don’t lose rating for a loss what incentivizes them to play well if the game doesn’t look good for them?

Winning nets points, why would you not try to win?

Because people in this game ( I assume most games ) like to give up 30s in to a game when it doesn’t look good. So if there’s no penalty for a loss, why put in effort?

What a wild thing this would be to behold.

Kalvish, Chan, Kubzy enter a lobby with XxLegolasxX the Lonewolf MM hunter who has twenty thousand games. He dies in the first kidney with trinket up after he disengaged behind a pillar.

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Finally, the moment people who queue 8000 rounds of enhancement shuffle at 2k have waited for.

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Again, you could match people with similar MMR for games (which blizzard uses to approximate skill). The only difference would be that lower rating players could still climb rating and thus be retained longer in the system.

I do not see how in this system I’m suggesting we would have chan, kalvish or other AWC players playing “joe blow” the random huntard.

I only read the first paragraph, but I’m not convinced. Rating is a quantitative measure of skill, not the number of games played, which is already reflected in another metric Honor Level.

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I think I agree with venruki and supatease and others that are suggesting drastic changes are needed to pvp system. I’m not thinking of the individual, but rather the system…

We need more players in pvp, we need more people queuing to play, and we need to RETAIN a bigger proportion of the playerbase.

Don’t make rating the measure of skill, give season titles achievements etc for the speed with which people can climb to the heights of the pvp system. Use mmr to match up similar skilled players, so each game feels evenly matched.

If people don’t enjoy pvp, our little community is going to dry up and die off. We’re already like what, 5% of the playerbase in wow?

I am but them hpals keep holding me back!

This is as far as I got, and I’m comfortable saying No… This is a terrible idea.

Edit: ok, read it all, and as expected, it’s a terrible idea. first thought best thought, eh? heh…

This idea you have panders to no lifers who can sit on the game 8 hrs everyday and be given unearned rewards for their “commitment” … it’s just asinine, really.

The top players would still be the top players and the only real difference being the already mentioned no lifers would have egos like you wouldn’t believe and those without the time would be filling the forums up with why it’s unfair… which it would be.

carries would be even worse too, btw… racing to 100 wins, as well as griefers trying to stop people who are pushing the fast rating.

also, MMR would be immensely jacked mid season. People who waited to push mid season wouldn’t meet up with players of their true MMR for awhile, giving them essentially free wins in the 2k+ all the way to know what because of all the mid players that played 100s of games and are in that MMR. You’d have players getting to 100 really fast mid season and would be in no way a reflection of skill.

overall, just a terrible idea, dude.

That’s a terrible system though. Nothing would set apart a player that is actually skilled versus a player that has more free time.

I’m essentially a perma-Duelist. I don’t deserve Gladiator or mounts, why? Because I don’t put the same level of effort, time, practice and networking as the players that do achieve it. And I’m okay with that mindset. I achieve the level I want, and am happy to do so, but if you incentivize time versus skill reward systems, the overall health and competitive nature of the game-mode will be destroyed. It’s not long term sustainable.

This is why Blizzard should never listen to it’s players.

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Sounds like everyone wants to go down with the ship as it is, rather than fixing it.

Again, I play pvp because I enjoy it. I’m similar to the other guy who mentioned it earlier, I’m a permanent duelist but never a glad. I don’t expect to be the best or to win against AWC players, but I would like to do something other than sit in 20-30 min queue times.

We need more players NOW, and we need ways to keep people PLAYING pvp.

This rampant elitism and general toxicity towards discussions and change is a pretty lame feature of an otherwise fun mmorpg and competitive combat system.

I promise you that this idea isn’t what they had in mind.

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There’s so many better options than what you’re suggesting. Shorter seasons, percentage based rewards, seasonal award tracks, rating decay, better cadence and communication with tuning, integrated UI and in game arena practice modes.

Making a player not lose rating after losses masks the issues rather than fixing them. You’re giving easy gifts to attract disinterested players.

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I mean… you could make it work, but I don’t think it would solve anything.

The problem is, CR would become pretty meaningless and MMR would be the number that actually mattered when making groups.