Atm for me, a RSK heal is doing close to 20k for a crit, if they were to buff the dmg of RSK even further that would be pretty wonky. I can’t see them buffing our dmg while keeping that legendary as is. Pretty sure in BFA they nerfed WOTC pretty soon after conflict and strife came out for that same reason.
Easy fix though 25% dmg -25%healing they go with each other? Then healing would stay the same? At least at a quick thought that makes sense?
So 225% instead of 250%
But add that 25% we are taking to the damage and the healing in theory would stay the same?
And yes 25% is a number I think it should be obv only to the ones that go with ATOTM… this would imo fix fistweaving and now the only thing you would have to think of is how to help the monks that don’t like fistweaving…that one I like how I said up above something with CJL involved.
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the issue is, they all have huge value
ability to help kill a target when compared to other healers is massive, and you don’t assist damage it either stretches the game out or gives the opponent the ability to comeback… like saying spells like mind games, chain harvest or ashen hallow have no value in the damage they do
like yea theres no value in much of the damage of classes like shaman and paladin, however shaman also has other ways to add damage AND utility such as damage on purges, paladin also gets holy power on hammer of wrath so it does actually still go to healing output overall
holy priest as well get a shorter cooldown on chastise for each smite they land, actually really good for getting faster kill opportunities and being available before enemy cooldowns are ready
disc plays with Trinity which means 70% of all damage (or 60% not sure how math works) and actually triggers on big spells like mind game’s initial damage and shadowfiend, having multiple dots actually contributes a lot to healing even under pressure, and its actually disc’s mana efficient healing
druid kind of the only one where there’s no value unless you are feral, then you have 2 different extentions to your crown control with stealth rake and maim… druid’s work better for this since they can roll hots then leave combat, but also have big heals if your team dips… also players do less damage/healing when CC’ed
actually, even MW does have setups where doing damage drastically increases healing out, and not including the Ancient Teachings legendary… properly timed RSK with Rising Mists extend time on all hots, often times adding several thousand healing for much less mana while doing damage (2 RSK in one Enveloping double’s its healing and works well with either Rising Mist or Focused Thunder)
also I’ll say it, touch of death has won me many games finishing off an enemy
like, hard to really give monk’s ranged damage, so rather see things like more freedom to get in, do some significant damage, and get out to heal… kind of super high risk vs reward (if anything some teams you are giving them a free kill trying to do damage no matter how much)
and ofcourse you can play with Ancient Teachings to get max value, I use that regular on my monk since it gives me a ton of healing when locked if you regularly use Font when healing… but if you play something like Tear, then doesn’t even matter if you can do damage, you wont get any value from it
Would love to see the Crane Stance cd return for MW, that was 25% physical damage I believe, be nice to stack with Chi’ji
I’ve seen logs where it is the case… and not just a few. Max actually showed in a recent video where on pull during lust their highest dps was a holy paladin doing 14k dps for 45 seconds.
If we actually look at max parses we can see holy paladin beating all survival hunters https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#class=Any&dataset=100&boss=2398
The issue is they can dish out so much damage while being within 10% hps of other healers. Then when you factor in Devo aura isn’t shown on healing meters or logs and its a passive 3% dr + 15% dr when AM is active its just insane.
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I think something is lost in translation here. I’m not coming from a PVP pov where comebacks are a thing but also the amount of damage they do DOES have 0 impact on how much healing those spells do.
If you AH and no enemies are in it it will do the same healing as if 10 enemies are in it. So there is no value in terms of HPS on those abilities. if we want to talk pvp then it gets even more complicated since you could talk about how the higher hps abilities and stuff could let you dps MORE
again. A paladin has 0 cares if their HoW does or doesn’t crit when it comes from a HPS Pov. They get the same amount of holy power no matter what happens (as long as its not parried, dodged, misses but this is the same with mw and rm as well)
My point is the only healer where more dps = more hps directly is disc priest
while all the others, mw paladin, shaman etc are more about what they get when the ability is pressed.
Hit rsk on as a mw. Cool i did 10 damage but all my hots were extended and i directly healed people
Hit HoW on a paladin. Cool i did 10 damage but i got a holy power.
where a disc priest is like heck i did 10 damage so i only did 6 healing
With ATOTM they care about there dmg dmg does = hps
Depends on what you think of as “burst” but for the 30seconds ashen hallow is down Holy paladins are absolute monsters being able to sustain 10-15k DPS (single target) while still doing 5-10k HPS.
Ok so back on topic though I think MW could use a buff in dmg. I think for how aggressive fistweaving can be played it’s not rewarded enough
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Well the main problem is exposing yourself, its not that bad with ATotM since its probably the best healing MW has access to while moving (also usable while locked since the 3 attacks are physical, takes some practice to use Font regularly so the buff is up)
Like MW has only 1 ranged attack with Jade Lightning, like at my monk’s gear level only does 500-600dps and not much else, that skill definitely could be bumped up quite a Bit (also there is a Lego but only works for WW since its on chi spenders)
There’s also buffing skills like increasing the damage component Chi Wave and Blast, but have to be careful not to have it baseline to indirectly buff WW
Like also MW has no covenant choice which lends well to damage, actually covenants that would be damage also get changed to healing too such as with Fallen Order or Faeline Stomp’s secondary effect (changes from damage to essent font hot)… bonedust does lend to damage but doesn’t affect you much if youre damage is already low, and kyrian’s has zero damage potential being mastery on use
paladin/shaman/priest definitely have abilities that make them have way over the top damage… actually both paladin and priest have alternate choices as well, divine toll can do fairly decent AoE spikes, and though its not common, priest’s Boon (kyrian) is actually capable of way more damage then Mind games does (it gives you like an Archon mode and does quite a lot of burst and healing)
…
Like at the very least, based on how much DPS i know I can do compared to my other healers, MW needs around a 25-33% physical damage increase to be at least on par with other healers without cooldowns (kind of unfair still since MW has no ability like wings, skyfury or PI)… I’d rather just get the holy priest treatment and have a flat 50% coefficient increase for damage (compared to disc)
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That’s what I’m thinking it needs to be around that 25% mark. I never played mistweaver till this exp maybe messed around a little here and there but not like I am now. That being said I don’t know the full mechanics of what the crane stance was but someone above said that it was 25% increase in damage and if that’s the case then just bring that back and there is no penalty to the other specs.
Yea kind of figure that much because its fairly easy to float 2-2.5k dps with paladin/shaman/priest, but MW kind of sits around 1.5k (my druid is the lowest only about 1k, but could take feral/balance affinity and catch up with the other front runners)
Not counting in big covenant skills either, my paladin is Venthyr and in dungeons you pretty much pull 5-6k dps without ever needing to heal the group (actually top damage is Hammer of Wrath not Ashen)
like tough call cause people want something different
I’d be happy with Crane/Serpent stance back, slap a 25% damage increase (maybe limit what heals you can use) and have the attonement style heal
Or just flat increase is fine too, MW still wouldn’t be over the top unless they also had a DPS cooldown to stack on top which they don’t
Crane stance was annoying, on gcd, hard stop on dps outside of the stance.
If Blizz added an armour pen mechanic to mw like what subtlety has that would probably hit that 25%
Yeah I don’t know what crane stance really was just ironically the someone said it was 25% when that’s what I thought we needed lol. So if it was a bit bulky then just a flat 25 would be nice. I mean even our spinning crane kick is kind of pointless imo
Edit: I want pallys damage to be high though maybe not as high as it is but I think with the lack of mobility it makes sense. I don’t want to have more dmg then them but at the same time my damage should not be that far behind only because we have the mobility to keep on boss mechanics and in pvp.
The things I’ve stated piggy back off of that which directly states atotm being something that does care about it. But also atotm isn’t the majority of our healing by a country mile in comparison to disc where literally 60+% of their hps depends on it.
This is such a weird paragraph. no covenant lends us damage then shows how 3/4 of the covenants do damage… Fallen order still summons ox and tiger clones. Stomp still has a base damage part…
But overall indirect buffs to damage could be a cool idea but i still think nerfing paladin by literally 75+% would be the better idea. There are logs where a holy paladin during lust on pull (so everyone is dpsing with all cooldowns) is the high dps class IN THE GAME not just healers but literally all other dps. This isn’t just some random joe either. Its literally in limit’s logs.
I do think its very important to note you give up all healing if you use use those on dps… but maybe that isn’t a bad thing 
but it isn’t a good reason to say buff mw damage
I meannnnnnnnnnnnn not really. In a normal progression fight which is the important thing to look at, mistweaver is normally the 3rd highest dps healer.
Idno why you would not agree with we need more DPS as a MW monk. Even without ATOTM rising mist and BOK resets dmg is definitely something we could bring to pvp and pve that we are pretty set up for to make happen. Only way I can see an argument here is if you want to play the monk as a range healer and don’t care about the DPS at all I just don’t see the monk being played that way imo. Not saying it can’t be just not how I see it. I don’t think a pally needs a 75% dmg reduction either though.
Because on the regular we are literally the 3rd highest dps healer in the game. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#class=Healers&dataset=99&aggregate=amount
the only time this isn’t true is on max % but looking at max %s for healer dps is like looking at max % for hps from a damage deal and saying like Darn. Mage and hunter are both trash specs since they can't do any healing https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#dataset=100&aggregate=amount&metric=hps&class=DPS
Is it okay for a healer on pull during lust to literally be the highest dps in the raid? If this is okay then its not just mistweaver that needs a damage boost its literally all healers
It wouldn’t be true cause all other healers that do have DPS have a bit more ways to reach there target paladin has little movement so that’s how I see pally. I mean sure nerf some dmg if the community agrees but not 75% that’s crazy. And yes I know we are 3rd but we are also the only ones that really actually DPS in our rotation besides the other 2 being pally and disc priest. I do think disc might be able to use a DPS boost to as well and pally sure a nerf but don’t make it 75% maybe like 25% and like I said buff MW 25% though and it be pretty close for in my eyes the way I see a little “class fantasy”
Paladin can do 14+k dps during its burst. that burst lasts 45 seconds. I don’t see how that is okay in anyone’s eyes. Imagine doing a boss in m+ and when the boss dies nobody is above the healer in dps even when all dps are playing optimally.
I skimmed logs hpal isn’t doing more DPS then the DPS classes maybe somewhere but I did t see it skimmed butttt that being said 25% nerf is what I’m saying and that’s it I stand by it. I bet it’s a pretty fun play style to for the people who like playing pally so why nerf them to hard instead of buffing others to a more even style when it makes sense to? I guess we will just disagree on this I get what your saying just have different view then I do