So I peek around here a little bit and see all the complaints. I don’t agree with all of them in the direction that I see but to each their own. I personally think we could have some DPS improvement imo. I run ATOM and I do really well in raids and keys. Now no I’m not pushing hardcore but if I wanted to I really don’t think I’d feel gimped as of right now. I see the damage though holy pallys can put out and it’s pretty high I’d like to be pushed in that direction. The problem I do see though is that there are some monks that want to just sit back and heal and some that want to engage in melee and that is where we are all going to have our differences and the problem I see there is how do you balance this? I’m going to post a log here and look at my dmg and healing…some fight yes I dont heal as high our top guy but it’s only because I don’t have to. If I had to I’d focus healing way more. So what I’m getting at is I like my play style but if I did have to heal harder I’d have to stop DPS kinda sorta to heal harder on targets which makes it that ATOM kinda takes a back seat which is cool but not if I have to do it to much. I’d really like to see it have a bit more smart healing meaning maybe it just heals the 1 of the lowest of 4. This way it doesn’t become tonpowerfull in dungeons and buffs it a little in raids. That being said this is only from a person doing heroic CN and keys around 12-14 I could push harder really just don’t don’t judge lol. I have logs but I’m not sure if I can share them with you guys via link through this. My DPS is usually parse 99 in all fights healing though like I said varies. Sometimes it’s ridiculously low but like I said I’m not always hard casting cause I just well don’t need to.
Edit: when I say low I don’t mean not appreciated low I mean like 3 - 3.5k hps compared to when I’m going in and out of hard casts and getting 4-6k hps
Yeah but this post isn’t really for those Mistweavers I guess.
Edit: Maybe though since you speak of it that way some how make crackling Jade lightning somehow in their play style maybe give back some mana or something put it on a cd like blackout kick and make it give back mana like it does with the talent .33% for each second you cast CJL for the ranged weavers out there boom done next.
I just wish mw had a shorter CD maybe on fort brew? To make up for the fact fw requires the risk of melee range. I agree though that fw with emergency turret healing with consistent dps gives the most bang for your buck. Maybe a dmg buff through rising mists?
My take on this isn’t that mw damage is too low but paladin damage is way too high. They need a 60+% dps nerf imo.
Since it makes sense that disc should be the top dps for healers on a standard progression fight, they literally have to depend on how much damage they do to heal. Paladin doesn’t care about how much damage they do in order to heal. Mistweaver doesn’t care about how much damage they do to heal even with atotm since you still get the majority of your healing from non atotm sources.
The only value there is to have from increased DPS would be more MW recognition in mythic prog and high M+. However, with the current ratio Ancient Teachings has (250%), you can’t just buff, say, Blackout kick or Rising sun kick flat damage. They would have to nerf the healing % accordingly.
It’s a risky numerical change to make during a patch or even before a bigger patch (think 9.1). Why? Because if it turns out OP, we will get nerfed back to irrelevance in the next patch (think Rising mist fiasco) OR if it turns out to be underwhelming either on the dps or healing side, or both, that will pretty much kill fistweaving and force people to play mistweaving, which isn’t particularly appealing to most monks (I know I’m not interested being a healing turret).
I’d think it wouldn’t end up with an early 8.3 situation because that only came about due to how the talent interacted with things.
A mostly set damage rotation with pretty static numbers involved wouldn’t be nearly as prone to an unforeseen breakpoint and would just be a reshuffling of numbers to achieve a specific goal (ie, changing damage percentages so a 200% heal off each involved spell is the same as a 250%)
I play every healer and MW is 2nd to last above rdruid, and you can make the argument of druid taking feral/balance affinity too (though guardian affinity best you can do is the 2 dots plus wrath)
Shaman has ele’s toolkit but hits harder, on top of this still has many other sources of damage to also buff the group (including the all powerful bloodlust)
Paladin have unusually hard hitting spells, nearly Prot’s full toolkit, and some insane spells like Ashen… also has amazing aoe power for a healer with concentration and shield slam
Holy Priest is a surprisingly high one, actually on par with Paladin’s damage as well as covenant spells seem to do 50% more then the other specs, including having power infusion for one player
Disc is designed to do damage but can do real damage too with the right talent spec (schism and dark covenant together can land 10k mind games), also people forget to add in the shadowfiend which can do nearly 10k damage in the time its up
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so yea, feel like monk’s should be doing similar damage to hpal considering their toolkit is also maximized in melee
it actually used to be like that, or at least MW hit as hard as WW did with their mastery, but it was justified since MW has 1.5sec GCD vs the 1sec so dps was lower despite doing the same damage per hit
Its actually interesting since outside of atotm you don’t actually care about how much damage you do even in fistweaver mode. Everything is tied to button doing any damage so if it hits a target with 99% dr you’re like nice i get full value (to note 99% drs actually don’t effect atonement or atotm healing from damage but its an example)
Yes. Basically all other healers can do more dps than us but all but 2 (paladin and disc priest) have to give up gcds that could be used for hps to do so.
A shaman gets 0 healing value from hitting lava burst or flame shock
A holy priest gets 0 healing value from hitting smite, PW:C, holy fire
A druid gets 0 healing value from putting dots up or cast affinity spells.
When we directly get healing from it, Rising mist extends hots and has a direct heal, spirit of the crane gives us mana, chi-ji allows for durations where you proc gusts and reduces cast time and mana cost of env thus saving mana and gcds (since we have a 1.5 second gcd and env is a 2 second cast)
I disagree with the idea holy pal needs a nerf in dmg and think we need a buff. This isn’t about our fortified brew or anything else either I’m saying we should be like a Mui Thai type of combat where we are like our offense is our defense. People should fear messing up there cc on us cause we hit hardish
Holy paladin does as much damage as a tank as well as doing as much healing as a healer at the same time. That either isn’t right or all healing specs should do that.
If a paladin goes full dps they can literally do more damage than dps players
Exactly though if they go full DPS…which means they are not healing so what’s wrong with that. I don’t think they can really output a DPS class same ilvl I know it’s high but I think that’s is just a little out of the reach unless comparing to a player that’s not as good as them. I’ve been grouped with some really good hpal though that definitely do dish out really good DPS but they won’t heal on top of that to do so. I don’t see a problem with that really.
Ok but the only other reason you fear a holy pal is cause they are also have a few survivability tricks more then us. But still lack mobility. Give us there dmg with our mobility. And no they don’t have highest burst in game I know it’s high but I really doubt this.
That’s nuts yeah but you can kite them out of the ability in PvP. And in PvE I don’t see a big deal about this as long as mistweaver is buffed to a equivalent reasoning. I don’t think it would break the game is what I’m saying I know they had DPS but my personal opinion is let them have it but let the other melee healers have it to. As for disc priest I’d say give them a tad dmg buff to but all of it needs to be equivalent in the play style for example you can’t give a disc priest that much dmg because they are range and heals meaning they have a lower risk of being caught in things. It’s gotta be done smart yes but the idea of ending classes just didn’t make sense to me I’d rather have buffs to even out the playing field.
Edit: As for PvP if that would happen making everything equivalent that’s when the PvP talents should come in to play to even out what we are missing weather that be survivability or w.e
Lol edit 2: Ok so for example look at this. This is me and I’m only holding like 1.2k DPS and last on heals also doing so. This don’t feel right in numbers but the play style feels great to me.
What I’m saying is if you buff my damage my heals will be buffed to from ATOTM. I feel like I’m playing to a pretty fair skill level to have a pretty solid opinion here.
MW doesn’t need their dmg buff, hpal is just doing super absurd dmg atm and that needs to be nerfed. I wouldn’t mind a dmg buff, but then they would have to nerf ATOTM, I wouldn’t mind a dmg buff cause I only use ATOTM in raid, but I think a lot of MWs would be angry at that.