The Alliance is the umbrella organization that Jaina belongs to and if they do not want to punish her for a bigoted action then he can conclude they are fine with her bigotry and bigots themselves (namely the people above Jaina in authority). I would agree with you if Lor’themar showed up accusing different members of the Alliance of being bigots over actions they did not commit, but he doesn’t.
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The reveal at the end that everything from war of the thorns to the final raid of the expansion was the Drunken Ramblings of Saurfang about why honor is important.
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Maybe because the “high king” has some big influence in the alliance as a whole?
Why would they care about dalaran in the first place?
tyrande? muradin? genn?
Haha So varian would put her in a prison his friend that supported him so many times, and now with she bringing 100 % of dalaran to the alliance in a war that the alliance, at the time was losing.?
he doesn’t even have such authority.
Sure, maybe he should have done that, and garrosh would have conquered the entire wolrd because some belfs died at the hands of the silver convenant.
false equivalence.
This thread doesn’t have much mutual positivity.
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Oh so the Alliance is a massive hive mind and since Varian gave her a slap on the wrist it completely absolves her of murder or the rest of the Alliance from condemning her? What a asinine thing to say.
Why would they care about her murdering neutral innocent people? Are you seriously asking that?
Yeah why would he punish a friend for murder, thats ridiculous. And Jaina didint lead or speak for Dalaran by the way, not sure why her being punished for murder would invoke the wrath of Dalaran.
An Alliance aligned organization, along with Jaina Proudmore, one of as you say yourself:
Which she wasint by the way, not sure what nation your referring to, she didint speak for, and was even dested by, Kul Tiras.
Perfect analogy.
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Lol you and the six brave souls that upvoted you. Seems like you don’t know your lore for Azshara or the Draenei.
You see for your rebuttal to work you have to showcase that the Draenei (Not Eredar) and the Night Elves to have actively worked with demons until such time they decided not to because it was inconvenient.
That is what Lorthemar has done. He has sent Sylvanas support and when Teldrassil happened he CHOSE to stand side by side with her instead of trying to bring her down.
Tsk Tsk Tsk.
Typical Horde player not knowing his lore.
Did I say something untrue? Why would the truth be cause for an argument?
In the very same questline, Varian asks the alliance player to ask Jaina dalaran for military help and she tells us to take a hike. Varian doesn’t even have any semblance of authority over Jaina until after the Purge when dalaran willingly joins, and even then he still doesnt have that kind of power and why bother at that point since lorthermar already wrote the alliance off forever.
So you’re telling me that when Velen -who is a racial leader of the alliance- and Muru play jesus and save the entire race the blood elves only owe them and them specifically but when someone who wasnt even properly in the alliance at the time commits some action against them its the entire faction who shares fault (which would include velen and draenei btw)
No, he uses a blanket term for the entire faction which is even worse. Lor’thermar accussed everyone, from the highest lord to the lowest serf of bigotry, even the ones that had no idea what happened and might have spoken in his favor against jaina.
It really isnt.
In the case of the purge you have the leader of the faction at the very least chastising the one that comitted the atrocity.
In the case of Teld you have the leader of the faction committing the atrocity and most of said faction apparently supports her anyway.
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it doesn’t absolve it her, i didn’t say that.
simply that it was for the alliance best interest that they just give her a pass since she did supported them in the past.
Yes, tell me why someone like tyrande would even care about blood elves? as far as she is concerned, they are her enemies and jaina her ally.
But she didn’t attacked varian’s people, she didn’t killed stormwind citizens, she didn’t attacked alliance troops.
Maybe because she was the leader of the nation?
i don’t know what could have happened with the members of the council if something like that happened, many if not all of them are more connected with the alliance than with the horde, the fact that they looked the other way (again) proves that their loyalty is to the alliance. so maybe they would feel betrayed if the alliance high king try to put their leader in prison.
so you do agree that trying to compare the purge with teldrassil is not the same right? at least we agree on something.
or what, you are telling me that because she wasn’t punished by the alliance then the entire horde is responsible for sylvanas actions because they didn’t care about the innocents killed in teldrassil?
then that makes it easier don’t you think?
How does that absolve her though? If you want the Horde to be held accountable for their actions then the Alliance has to be as well.
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You mean Aethas right?
His Sunreavers made the mana bomb and stole the Divine Bell and when they were going to be arrested for questioning revolted.
The Sunreavers caused their own demise.
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Her victims already absolved her so that particular axe has been buried. Sylvanas is still vomiting evul on the carpet though
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You’ve drug this so far off my initial point. My initial, and only, point was:
Thus making the entire Alliance as responsible for her actions as the Horde is for Sylvanas’.
Council of Six. Cant post links for some reason.
Where is this mentioned? Not all apparently, as the Sunreavers appear aligned with her in the War Campaign.
Yes because first of all Velen was there on behalf of A’dal and the Naaru. Velen did not go to the Sunwell because the Alliance told him to. He did it because he worships the Naaru and they informed him of Muuru’s plan and sent him there. That’s why the Alliance doesn’t get to claim that action as their own.
Who said that they share fault? I said that since they had an option to disavow Jaina’s bigoted actions and punish her, but chose not to, Lor’themar can extend that characterization of bigotry to the Alliance that doesn’t have a problem with her actions. The Alliance as a political entity and the individual members are two different things. Much like the UN and the member states that make it up.
Let me ask you this. Was Liadrin and the Bloodknights going to save Shattrath in WOD an action of Horde heroism?
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Because she did nothing wrong.
Sunreavers destroyed her city and worked for Garrosh under the guise of neutrality.
When she confronted them. They revolted.
They did it to themselves.
Like… do you even know the lore? Like what are you talking about?
You manufacture your own outrage.
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oh sorry i just joined the conversation after seeing things that bothered me.
Here is the key difference rhast.
Sylvanas is the warchief. isn’t the horde what their warchief is?
jaina is NOT the leader of the ENTIRE alliance.
Leader of the council that basically spoke for them,if they still supported her after that that means that they agree with her. or they would just have kicked her out.
War crimes, lord’themar points all the blame to garrosh as a mastermove by him and just forget about it and no, not all of them since apparently 1 still wanted revenge.
but lord’themar does have autority over all of silvermon and their members, right?
The purge proved to be a bloody affair. Though compliant Sunreavers were imprisoned, many proved defiant in the face of exile from Dalaran and took up arms against Jaina, the Alliance forces, and the Silver Covenant, while some Silver Covenant opportunists took the chance to rob, attack, and otherwise harass the civilians of their political rivals.
Insane what you can learn when you can read.
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But they didint support her which is why she turned to the Silver Covenant.
I know right?
You just proved my point. The Sunreavers revolted and attacked Jaina.
Like are you even reading the paragraph you posted?
The ones that surrendered got prison time.
The ones that fought died for it.
Pretty straight forward.
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Yes they did, and silver covenant included.
The entire council did nothing to punish her, not even khadgar, that means that they agreed with her action.
so she did her job as leader of the council.
It transpired that, while not having been directly involved in the theft himself, Aethas had been aware of it and chose to remain silent.
So not only was he not even directly involved but Aethas was o-n-e person and yet Jaina wrongfully attacked all the Sunreavers.
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