Nathanos does not need to be palatable to the Alliance. He is not for them. He should ideally be at least somewhat likable to the Horde player base though. I like him a lot as he is but I think having him just say something nice to the Horde PC/ him giving them their props for everything they’ve done would go a long way towards softening views towards him and making him an acceptable Forsaken replacement.
His story is about as Forsaken as it comes, and I think he’d be a great rep for them once Sylvanas moves on to whatever is next for her.
Nathanos hasn’t had a reason to turn on her yet. Not a sufficient one at least. Saurfang is motivated by the horrors of Teldrassil certainly, but its his previous experience and trauma with those sort of Genocide events that is promoting that behavior (as well as his contempt for what Sylvie is turning the Horde into). Blightcaller does not have the same shared trauma with those sort of massacre situations; his people have a VERY unique relationship with Death; he IS aware of the afterlife Sylvie experienced; and Sylvie hasn’t done anything openly against the Forsaken (which I DO think he’s at least invested in … since he’s the one who founded the HUMAN-Forsaken Rangers).
I’m not excusing his behavior, he’s a monster, but who knows … he could be something more with the right motives. I’ve long argued that what the Forsaken need to at least shift course into something more symbiotic with the living race of the world is merely a leader who unambiguously cares for their future as a PEOPLE (who also doesn’t just wash away their experiences the last 15 years like Calia would). Could that be Nate? I would take one hell of a betrayal from his Queen to set him (and them) on that course. Could it be Voss? She needs a whole lot more development in a very short time to get there. We shall see … but Nate I remain undecided on.
I dont mind legion nathanos so much. BFA nathanos is annoying as hell. Was kinda hoping tyrande would kill him in the night warrior quest and then have him resurrected, maybe make him a bit less of a jerk.
THats the whole point, how can the forsaken be the same genocide zombies and be in the horde with or without sylvanas, they literally have to change or be removed from the horde.
And yet despite all of that ingame it was like the horde blitkriegeg the entire nelf race, and destroying their entire island alongisde with maximum civilians casualities.
while the entire alliance and leaders were left as clowns who can’t even protect their people. or soldiers.
i am not seeing the horde running out of troops at the contrary of the alliance where in CGI cinematics we see piles and piles of bodies while acheving NOTHING in the war. (until that point)
we didn’t even destroyed lordaeron ourselves, it was all part of some giganted 80d chess.
and when we striked the zandalari while we did destroyed the fleet there wasn’t even need for a land assault and in the end it was all about giving them a reason to join to horde after we killed rasthaboi.
(in fact, he died more because bwosandi abandoned him)
You just described the motivations of the forsaken, goblins, nightborne, blood elves, and maghar for joining the horde.
virtually NOBODY wants to join the horde, three of those that i listed went to the alliance first (or tried going back to the alliance). We are the kid nobody wants on their team.
As for the horde not running out of troops, considering our troops are pretty much useless i dont see why it matters. both UC and war of thorns has shown that our military is useless. Like…the blight has done more to help winning the war (that we are losing) than the entire horde military.
Seems pretty much implied with your complaining over the absolute humiliation over having to retreat from the Horde’s very expansion capital after the mission was over. What, did you expect them to let the surgical strikeforce the Alliance sent to beat the entire Zandalari army plus the Horde’s force?
What would you have considered a victory in Dazar’alor exactly? To get to parade Rastakhan through Stormwind in chains? No kidding you failed to make them stay out of the war, they were confirmed to be an allied race.
“Oh no, the Horde gave Jaina a papercut and put Gelbin on a bus for a couple patches before he inevitably comes back stronger and more important than ever, woe is us!”
But they can’t be removed from the Horde mechanically. And as for Nathanos, yes … him being their leader would allow them to keep much of their racial fantasy and edge. However, he has repeatedly shown he works more cooperatively with the other Horde races than Sylvie ever has. He’s a dick, but he’s a dick to everyone (no one is immune but his Queen). He also doesn’t seem to have the same sort of “machinations-temperament” as Sylvanas.
On top of this, FEW Forsaken characters represent what the Forsaken ARE more then him. He’s an anger filled, apathetic, snark machine … who has a very callous relationship with death (all VERY Forsaken). Unlike Sylvie he actually WAS a champion of Lordaeron in life; Unlike Sylvie he actually WAS betrayed by the Alliance (when Shaw attempted to assassinate him); Unlike Sylvie he actually has shown a vested interest in the Forsaken’s Future as a People (if only in small ways). What’s really preventing him from being a GREAT potential leader for them is his relationship with the Banshee Queen (which, ironically, also represents the Forsaken people as well; their relationship with her also is one of the leading factors preventing them from reaching their potential).
TBH I would prefer any tenure of him as Forsaken Racial Leader be supplemented with Voss being HIS champion (as she is the living embodiment of Forsaken Free Will); but on paper I cannot think of a better Leader COMBO for them if Sylvie is to go, than Nate (free’d from Sylvie) and Voss (FINALLY completely invested in the future of her people).
The Forsaken are made up of ALL the nations that Arthas rampaged through, including Quel’thalas where Sylvanas actually died facing Arthas down, not just Lordaeron. Just a friendly reminder since you seem to need a reminder of this every time you post about how great Steve Danuser is as Forsaken leader.
Oh, and they DID reach their potential. Cata Forsaken were their peak, and Sylvanas lead that charge.
I just personally disagree, I dont think nathanos is a character that should be forgiven for genocide, I barely give saurfang a pass, and as a race forsaken just cannot be doing the same things they always been doing, otherwise whats the point of this xpac, why are we gonna do another horde alliance war because the forsaken didnt learn about honor again.
Yeah … but have you noticed the issue with that? Sylvie’s favoritism … is VERY clear. She does not treat all Forsaken the same. She prefers her Elven Forsaken over the Human ones in MASSIVE ways. Her inner council is comprised exclusively by Dark Rangers (with Nathanos, her boy toy, being the SOLE exception). On top of this, her relationship with her Forsaken STILL remains DELIBERATELY ambiguous (with her falling on the line of “they are JUST tools” far, FAR too often).
Even her actions in Cata could be calculated out to merely her expanding the power of her “Bulwark Against the Infinite” (AKA her meatshield against her afterlife). The more bodies in that shield, the more protected she happens to be from her eternity.
And the payoff for the Forsaken is that they became a power to be feared.
It’s a win-win.
Even if Sylvanas left them at their highest point they ever reached, its not like they’re just gonna stop making Blight or anything. They’ll just do it without her, but still with the foundation she left.
I don’t see many other alternatives for them. Mechanically, they ARE part of the Horde … so they need to be placated to. Due in part to Sylvie’s OPPRESSIVE influence, they also don’t have much in the way of developed characters. Of those, Voss is just not ready to take the mantel of leadership, and Calia essentially comes with the risk of washing away the last 15 years of their their history (all the suffering, horrors, and struggles … which SHE did not experience).
That leaves Blightcaller. He’s the only one developed enough to fill a void left if Sylvanas has to go (and I think you would at LEAST agree she HAS to go); and really all it would take for him to do so is for HER to betray her people sufficiently enough to jar him loose. It would also make Danusar’s creepy fanboy posts little more than a Red-Herring to obfuscate Nate’s eventual turn against his own Queen (which WOULD be satisfying to me, there is something cathartic with that concept).
And the cost for that is that they ceased to be anything more than the Scourge 2.0 (which absolutely ZERO living races on Azeroth should tolerate, both Horde and Alliance).
In fact, they are MORE evil than the Scourge because they do everything the Scourge do; but with “Free Will”. It also means that their racial fantasy continued to infringe on (or come at the expense of) the racial fantasies of every single living Horde race; because both THEY and their leaders were forced to increasingly turn a blind eye to the Lich Queen (who is not secretive about her just using them) growing in their midst.
Well, contining with the teldrassil parallels.
The horde strike team at teldrassil did won the day and endep up in the position of power to “capture” the city, you know, capture and entire enemy capital but no, they decided to go even more further and destroy it with civilians or not it was their choice to do it.
now tell me, isn’t that humilliating to you?
Since we were comparing teldrassil with dazarlazor it seems like the horde did managed to get what i am describing.
while the alliance, not. in fact, they had to run or die, that wasn’t the case with the teld.
and the city is still standing.
until we march into and enemy capital, and destroy it ourselves, not dumb scorthed earth,and no “run Or diE” BS.while getting chased by a “bloodthirty horde that want revenge”.
is when we can start talking about getting some sort of “payback”.
Now hear me out.
I recognize that the story is NOT “horde bias” and that is not great for either side.
all what i am saying is that of course that dazarlazor wasn’t payback for teldrassil until we have an eye for an eye.
We already worked with thrall and even were forced to go to his wedding.
talk to me when you are forced to go to jaina’s wedding or “explore her emotions” like we had to do in cata.
for the record i do think that blizzard is dumb and NEVER should force players to help characters of the other faction, or they should just stop doing dumb faction war.
