What about all the Forsaken and the Horde butchering and blighting everything they touched?
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On the other hand, I suppose she could use Gallywix’s cannon to just blow the crap out of TB; then move her forces to SW while the TB defenders are still reeling?
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Its just baffles me that like, the same people calling for Sylvanas’ head are the same ones saying, well the purge wasent all that bad, and well she only ATTEMPTED to wipe out Org…so its like fine. Like no its not any better what so ever. Using an even worse thing to justify a bad thing does NOT make the lesser bad thing anymore OK or permissible.
Like wht the heck is with ppl. The double standard is astounding.
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It’s baffling lol.
Jaina attacks all Blood Elves in Dalaran for the action of one Blood Elf = Okay
Sylvanas attacks one member of the Alliance for the actions of another member of the Alliance = Not Okay
They’ll mumble something about how Sylvanas didn’t attack the Night Elves for that reason alone, but she used that logic to sell the attack to Saurfang so it applies. There are some Alliance fans who cannot admit that their faves did something wrong and that’s the problem.
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You mean like the double standard of wanting Sylvanas to live but wanting to have killed Jaina?
I think some of this is an expression of the factionalism that the current game (and world) is pushing.
Basically, no one wants the be the first person to back down.
- Person A refuses to say their side did something bad until person B admits that their own side did something terrible.
- Person B refuses to say their side did something bad until person A admits that their own side did something terrible.
So, because person A thinks person B is refusing to admit their own failures, they’ll keep arguing that person A’s own side was justified - because ‘if person B considers their side to be alright, than my side is also right by those same standards’. And then person B calls out A for only accepting this standard when it’s on A’s side, A argues that B should say their side was wrong, and it spirals from there.
Even when both people seem to believe that these are bad standards, it still takes a big effort to be the first person to step to the middle, say their side was wrong, and hope that the person they’re talking to will reciprocate instead of laughing and rubbing their face in their admission of wrongdoing.
And the multi-person nature of a thread only makes things more difficult, because it only takes one person jumping in to say ‘Horde are all evil people irl because of what pixels did’ or ‘the only bad thing about Teldrassil was that it didn’t kill more night elf children’ to shove everyone firmly back in their own camp.
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Yeah, that would also be one of those double standards. On the other hand I’m in no room to talk … I am one of those that still really hopes that Saurfang survives this expansion and remains part of the faction (for many, MANY reasons); but I want Sylvanas out of the Horde (despite both of them being architects of the WoT).
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Both sides can have a double standard, its not exclusive to one side, however, the outcry to bring sylvanas to justice has been much more widespread and harsher, where as the outcry to bring jaina to justice has been much more subtle and not nearly as frequent.
I just see it much more widespread on one side. Like on this very forum, iv seen so many threads about what should happen to sylvanas, the horde, etc, where as I see next to no threads about what should happen to the alliance, jaina etc.
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Incidentally, I don’t see you asking for a retcon to make it so Jaina never tried to drown Orgrimmar.
Your point? The only reason I bring up a retcon about sylvanas, is because it seems as if the event was much to impactful. Blizzard themselves even stated they think they over did it. (Sorry wish I had time to find that QnA).
If you think the purge of dalaran needs one, state your case, I however dont think it does, it was impactful but not over the top like the WoT.
Also another reason I dont bring it up is because I realize not everything is gonna be fine and dandy all the time. But that is one thing that seems much overdone.
To your point, Patch 5.1 was seven years ago. If you would like to see the plethora of posts about what should be done to Jaina you should look in that timeframe on the previous forums. If anything, that it’s still being discussed now runs counter to your point.
I could see people making the argument that the purge and drowning attempt should be retconned because it was “out of character” for Jaina. I’ve never personally been a fan of Jaina in any of her iterations (though her latest version is tolerable enough), so I wouldn’t say it needs a retcon.
Jaina was a fool that got played by Garrosh and went after innocent Sunreavers and showed she was not mentally stable enough to be in a leadership position and (narratively) cost the Alliance the rejoining of the Blood Elves.
Her punishment was no one putting any value in her words any more. Varian listened to Anduin instead of Jaina. Khadgar went around Jaina’s back on Draenor. And she got out voted and the Horde were let back into Dalaran. Unrelated to any of that, her punishment continued when she went back to Kul’Tiras and was jailed and thrown into a hell dimension for having prioritized the lives of the Horde over the life of her father lost to hatred. Jaina gets punished.
So far, for everything she has done since regaining her free will, Sylvanas has not.
So I also don’t think the burning of Teldrassil needs a retcon. I just think Sylvanas needs to die because of it.
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Only Sylvanas?
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And Nathanos and the NPCs that manned the catapults and used their magic to burn down the tree.
Rest of the Horde should atone for the War of the Thorns, but for the narrative purpose of having the Night Elves and Alliance see the rest of the Horde as not purely evil, so, no, the rest of the Horde does not need to die.
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I don’t want them to die either. Just humiliated.
What about Saurfang?
This whole expansion has already been one long humilation after another for the horde as it is.
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Nah, that was no humiliation.
so lets see here:
- the horde with an eight to one advantage, with the element of surprise, fighting mostly civilians, with azerite superweapons, and sending an army through what was considered impassable terrain…barely manages to defeat the enemy with the entire might of the horde.
-the entire might of the horde defended UC without being surprised, and the alliance effortlessly steamrolls through with the horde putting up even less resistance than the NE did defending their territory without the aid of their military.
-we stage a prison break with 4 major horde characters, only to have to cower in fear of the mighty Genn and Jaina whose mere presence sent the horde into a panic. A prison break which would have failed if Zul did not bail us out btw. Hmm, seems to be a theme here.
-Horde basically fails at everything in every zone (blood trolls overrun zandalar, sethrekk unleash mythrax, Zul stages a coup)
-Alliance had to kill the Blood Trolls for us, because the Horde was incapable of doing it. Which seems to be a running theme, Horde cant do anything unless their enemies bail them out.
-Horde steals the sceptor of the tides, only for the alliance to steal it back and use it against us without us even knowing it was gone.
-Rastakhan, one of the most interesting characters introduced to the Horde in a very long time, is killed. Jaina simply peaces out in the middlle of a fight against the horde champions, Rokhan, Talinji, and Nathanos who couldnt even put the slightest of dents in her.
-Alliance start beating the horde hide in the war like a drum until Azshara comes and rescues us. for the freakin hat-trick.
This whole expansion can be summed up as “Alliance are perfect and always right, Horde are incompetent and cant do anything right”. so you know, the Broken Shore all over again.
The Alliance have no idea what it means to be humiliated.
EDIT: Oh one final thing, we had a beloved character become warchief whose only significant act as warchief was DYING (voljin)
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This is why the whole WoT scenario is so god awful. The Horde sucker punches the Night Elves, get slaughtered at an 8-1 ratio, and walk way looking both evil and incompetent.
It’s also awful for the Night Elves though because despite their impressive defense, they still get their home burned down, their most powerful character gets dropped by an axe, and their race gets left apparently on the brink of extinction.
Its just a garbage story beat all around and a monument to Blizzards lack of writing ability.
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Saurfang should live and come help the Night Elves get their lands back and then reform the Horde to atone for having bought into and lead the War of the Thorns.
For humiliation, I agree with Atreis, except these two parts:
Saurfang played the Alliance like chumps and Shaw ate up his misinformation and regurgitated it to the Alliance and the Night Elves sent their army away from their people because of it. That’s plenty incompetent on the Alliance’s part.
On top of the above, you don’t think a giant living tree being burned by bog standard catapults with a maximum range of two-hundred yards isn’t humiliating?
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No more than the balistas physics used to take down the dragons in Game of Thrones, with each balista hitting with the force of a shuttle launch. Also thats not humiliating, its just stupid. The NE were shown to be a nearly unstoppable force in that war. By any sane metric simply ONE of those disadvantages would have been enough for the battle to be one sided. The NE had FIVE massive disadvantages and still put up a better fight than the horde did at UC, a fight in which they did not have ANY major disadvantage.
THAT is humiliating.
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