theramore wasn’t neutral, hell i can go now with my ally toon in vanilla there and find that the npcs are friendly and give me quests.
while horde would be red, same with cata.
i think that you are mistaking “neutral” with “diplomat”
True, that is why she was willing to trust them again and tried to not send actual military support to the alliance. hoping to , at the end of the war with garrosh dalaran could come back to being neutral.
wasn’t because some taurens wanted even more blood even when the commander of the attack was already killed?
she could not know that.
is almost like leaders have to be perfect in everything and never make any mistake.
a flawless leader doesn’t work. it’s not realistic.
Thrall proved himself to be an outlier, that’s not really a good thing. Without him the Orcs have twice now gone right back to their old ways, even Saurfang. If they can’t be better people without him then are they really redeemed?
Orcs are idiots who come from a planet were not being aggressive to every single living thing was a very good way to die. They aren’t good people by any stretch of the imagination, but they at least have a decent reason to be warmongering jerks. Thrall’s issues more boiled down to telling Orcs to idolize war criminals while at the same time trying to reform them, which is why it’s proven so hard for them to change. He is trying to keep the warrior culture of the orcs, while at the same time telling them not to go to war with a rival empire.
On the other hand, the expectation that Baine BE a perfectly balanced leader this early in his rein is … a bit irrational. As much as his “Tolken Good Horde” plot device status may obfuscate it, Baine IS intended to be a “Coming of Age” style narrative. He’s young, inexperienced, idealistic, and clearly wishes to honor his father’s dying goal (but clearly lacks the knowledge to properly do so).
Honestly, if it weren’t for the fact that his needs as a plot device (to serve as a counterbalance whenever Blizz wants another Horde to go off the deep end) … he wouldn’t be that unpalatable of a character. I get what he is conceptually, but his execution is piss poor; same with Blightcaller; same with Saurfang’s current arc; same with with Aethas during the bell-theft arc. Lots of poor execution taking what should be OK stories and characters and squandering them.
This is what I mean when I say you have zero clue about the lore.
The Draenei CRASHLANDED there. They didn’t exactly say “Hey this looks like a nice place”, they were in a dire situation and found the closest habitable planet and landed there.
Garrosh warned them. Please read about WoD on what they decided to do.
Velen sees the future so he can pretty much anticipate if a decision is going to be good or supremely stupid.
My issue is when people say the purge wasn’t evil, it was, and jaina should be heald accountable for it. I can get her reasoning, but saying “I didn’t know they weren’t a filthy traitor” isn’t a very good defense, Reasons also don’t matter, results do.
The Baine thing was because he banished people for attacking Bael Modan, a Dwarven Fortress that had been bombarding the Tauren for years. If the Tauren actually began attacking people who were innocent, then it would be one thing. (There is also the stupidity of claiming that you aren;t at war when an apparent legitimate military target (That was destroyed on faulty information) is razed, but that’s just Golden being dumb)
More than 200 years before the First War, Velen and his Draenei settled upon a remote and peaceful world that seemed an ideal refuge.
However, no amount of preparation could keep the draenei hidden forever. Eventually, Talgath—after some 25,000 years of pursuit—stumbled upon Draenor sensing the sweet minting essence of eredar magic
Again, the irony.
Your thinking of:
When the draenei tried to planeshift, their sabotaged engine went haywire, and ended up hurtling out of control through the Twisting Nether until it crash-landed on a chain of islands
oh can tell you that it was dark, messy, and even a little bit irrational.
but at the same time i can understand why and how happened so it’s easy to justify.
so if reason doesn’t matter and only result, then no one is justified to do anything right? we should not attack the lich king even if he is trying to kill us or that he already destroyed some kingdoms.
kinda interesting concept.
weird,i always thought that it was because those cows weren’t satisfied enough with bael modan/hawtorne and wanted even more blood.
thanks for clarifying.
I mean Ignoring the fact Aethas and the vast majority of sunreavers are innocent, if you actually read my post you’d see i said they should be punished, just not arrested, and after talking to the rest of the council. Aethas should have 100% lost his seat at the Council of Six for that, and an actual investigation should have happened.
I’d also be fine with the purge as is if it was portrayed as the act of a woman slowly going paranoid, and isn’t constantly being defended and whitewashed.
Nearly 200 years before Azeroth’s First War, the draenei crashed upon this remote world in their naaru vessel, the Genedar.[20][21][22] They believed that this world would be an ideal refuge for their millenia-long exodus and named it Draenor,[23][24] which meant “Exiles’ Refuge” in their tongue; since the native orcs did not have a name for the planet—other than simply “world”—they eventually adopted the Draenei term.[25] The settlers quietly cultivated their society once again and kept their magic hidden, ever wary of being discovered again by the Burning Legion’s forces. The draenei also built Shattrath City in the location where the city of Goria once stood.[26] The talbuks that they had brought along from their homeworld of Argus proved capable of surviving on their own on the new world, becoming integrated with the native ecosystem.[27][28]
Their arrival, however, placed a literal dark burden on the planet. One of the naaru on board, K’ara, was severely injured in the crash and flung into orbit where it entered the ‘darkened’ stage of a naaru’s life-cycle. As a dark naaru its presence was felt by the orc clan who dwelled in the Shadowmoon Valley who called it the ‘Dark Star’. Some of its members even began to channel the darkness that K’ara produced, allowing them to defile the dead and summon Void creatures. In horror the chieftain of the Shadowmoon clan banned the use of shadow under any circumstances.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Draenor
Can you please do your research before you start these debates? You will save everyone so much time.
Aethas let the attack happen. He knew about it. He approved it when he could have stopped it.
I would hardly call him innocent. This is why he was exiled from Dalaran.
Are you really going to use due process as the sole reason for your outrage?
What makes you think Jaina had no right to do what she did?
If she broke laws she would have been exiled too like Aethas.
Clearly she did nothing wrong in the eyes of the councile.
She didn’t no, She had no right to do that. If what we hear from Khadgar later is true, then the Leader onf the Council does not have supreme Authority on all matters. As for her not being exiled, that’s because Jaina is the biggest Creators pet in the game. Like, in the entire game.
Pretty sure we learnt that when Dalaran let the Horde back in despite her protest in Legion. The reason she wasn’t punished for it is as i said, she is a creators pet, and blizzard’s writing team doesn’t like the alliance doing morally ambiguios things. It’s why you guys never feel satisfied when fighting the horde.
or because the entire council, including khadgar for better or worse agreed with her.
what would be your proof that she is a creators pet when she was basically thrashed the entire time by writters? making her lose kingdoms, cities, friends, like come on, creators pet?
wait, the purge is not doing morally ambiguios things from the alliance?
i could easily say the same about the horde and their plot armor because you know, is a playable faction, is a creator’s pet.
you know, CGI cinematics, this story and all that.
The Horde was let back in… but not the Sunreavers or Aethas. Not until the mage questline where he had to beg to be let back in.
Khadgar came with the same song and dance that we need to work together again and Horde has payed enough etc etc…
Nothing he said, to my memory, made her guilty of anything and you can’t point to speculation and meta knowledge for your outrage.
Sunreavers reaped the benefits of their own actions.
If you want to be legitimately pissed be pissed at Aethas. Everything was his fault.