What head canon?
I wasn’t insinuating that you, personally, have head canon. But what I’m saying is that we have a limited amount of information to work with so our options are to either:
- Go with the in-game description
- Go with whatever the devs say
- Make up a head canon and try to pretend that it is true
Unfortunately #3 is the most common thing I see in this forum. Remember when Ethriel was blithering on about how the Night Elves were basically extinct and all their souls were obliterated? Those types of things get out of hand really quickly.
Chronicles 1, page 94 "It was Cenarius’s hope that the night elves would strive to live in harmony with the wilds. For many centuries, the night elves did. … But in time, many of the night elves yearned for a different life. These individuals became obsessed with unlocking the Well of Eternity’s secrets. … It was during this era of unprecedented growth that the night elves’ most prolific leader came to power. Her name was Queen Azshara. … "
Ah, here we go, page 95. You missed some key details, oopsies.
“There was, however, one location Azshara and her forces avoided: Mount Hyjal. The spirits and demigods who roamed the sylvan forests unsettled the queen. She knew in her bones that Hyjal was somehow beyond her influence. It was a place steeped in ancient magic, a wild, untameable, and unchangeable land that stood in STARK CONTRAST to her vision of a new Kalimdor.” So she was afraid of Hyjal because she couldn’t control it.
“Publicly, Azshara prohibited expansion into Hyjal out of respect for the night elves’ ancient kinship with the forests. In truth, she DESPISED the mountain and the harmony it represented. Azshara’s views on Hyjal were well known to Cenarius. With growing unease, he had watched the night elf empire expand. Year by year, he became increasingly frustrated with the hubris and thoughtless actions of the sorcerous Highborne. The majority of night elf society continued honoring the old ways of revering the wilds. The fact that these folk still lived in harmony with the land warmed Cenarius’s heart, but he know that they had no influence over Azshara and her arrogant followers [the Highborne]”.
Page 104 regarding Suramar and the Highborne there, "Though they had thwarted the attempt to create a new portal, the rebellious Highborne had no plans to join the night elf resistance and continue fighting the Legion. " blah blah blah, we know what happened to Suramar.
So Chronicles actually directly contradicts what you said about ALL the Kaldorei held it as sacred. The Highborne actively reviled it. The Highborne of Suramar were some of Azshara’s most loyal followers, until they weren’t.
Chronicle is missing some information about Kaldorei beliefs as well:
Over time, however, the night elves were increasingly drawn to the cosmic energies of the Well. Furthermore, the rapid growth of the night elf civilization led inevitably to the creation of new buildings and roads. Large tracts of forest vanished. Tranquil woodlands turned into sprawling cities, and great trees were warped and twisted into shapes that would better serve as night elf dwellings. The night elves were losing touch with nature.
The number of night elves pursuing their studies with the demigod dwindled, and Cenarius was grieved to realize that all his work had been for naught. Reluctantly he departed night elf lands. He resolved that he would respect their choice, however much he disagreed with it. From that point forward, Cenarius retreated into the wilds of the world and avoided most sentient races until they came to doubt his very existence.
Millennia before the night elves’ interest in arcane magic led to the Great Sundering, Malfurion Stormrage came across several legends that referenced the mysterious Cenarius. Malfurion had always had great reverence for the natural world, although the night elves as a race had long since abandoned any interest in such matters. He shared these legends with his twin, Illidan Stormrage, and their mutual friend, Tyrande Whisperwind. The three night elves decided that it would be an exciting adventure to search for Cenarius, though in truth they no more believed in the demigod than the rest of their people did.
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Indeed which is why you have to take what you are being SHOWN at face value because what you are being told is… not dependable.
If you want to “win” a nerd argument on semantics and obscure references, you sure can do that but it has very little impact on the actual reception and enjoyment of the media.
Regardless of how much subjectivity you want to argue, its universal. Being shown is better than being told.
Now… Night Elves are moving, thats undeniable. Their new “Home” is Amirdrassil that is being plopped down in a continent on the other side of the planet of the original homeland where they got introduced and have so much built in lore and history with.
Anyone with a thinking brain will understand this is a migration, this is an uprooting of a people from one place to another place for the promise of renewal.
You can definitely try to argue “um actwallly they never and blablabla” but the message is clear from the devs to the player.
The Dev’s also tortured poor Ethriel by bringing up obliterated and tortured souls you had to rescue just to demonize Sylvanas and to make the Jailer the baddie we have to defeat. But they also just rubbed more salt into old wounds just to raise the stakes, Etheriel was right because thats what the Devs created to increase the drama. And no amount of “Um actwallies!!!” is going to change that.
No need for head canons, no need for obscure references, no need for shadowboxing with random justifications for dumb arguments. They made something to make people feel good or feel bad and people are just reacting to that.
Oh boy, what do you have for me now? Quotes out of context?
- The Highborne of Suramar were not the Highborne of Zin-Azshari who were part of innercircle.
- Tyrande, Malfurion and Illidan were all citizens of Suramar
Are they highborne too? Lol no. - What Azshara knew and what the public knew and considered as common knowledge are two different things…
So The mountain is still holy to all Kaldorei as stated by Chronicles 
Thanks for trying though, I guess Hyjal belongs to the Horde afterall!
So I don’t technically disagree with you but would point out that you are referring to the emotional perspective of the player and how they feel about the story. There is a difference between not liking a story, and creating a full blown headcanon that is not actually supported by the breadcrumbs that Blizzard was giving us.
The problem with Ethriel, and many other night elf fans is that they pass off their personal headcanons as an objective truth. History has shown that these perspectives are often wrong, but by that time they have something new to complain about.
We know that Blizzard is beginning to dabble in a world revamp with the Midnight/Last Titan expansions. Someday, if they ever get to it, we will see an updated Kalimdor and I would bet quite a bit of money that the Night Elves will be there. But by that time, we will all be posting on different alts and won’t be able to gloat to each other!
Again, I’m all for any shal’dorei who want to rejoin the night elves to do so. It would be silly not to let them, IMHO. But they, as a whole, chose to go with the Horde. Furthermore, the Highborne of Suramar were VERY inner circle. That’s stated in Chronicles. Do you need me to quote that for you too?
Page 103:
Suramar and the Pillars of Creation: As battles raged across Kalimdor, one group of Azshara’s servants grew increasingly concerned for their own future. This small sect of Highborne sorcerers acted as an extension of the queen’s will. From their headquarters in Suramar, they engaged in covertactivities aimed at securing Azshara’s rule and strengthening the empire.
Finally, the information presented in those two sources isn’t mutually exclusive. The entire section detailing the rise of Azshara and the highborne is dated 15,000 - 10,000 BDP. The following section, which starts with Malfurion already learning from Cenarius, is dated 10,000 BDP. In 5,000 years, it’s possible that what is said in the encyclopedia is accurate and that even the lowborne essentially didn’t believe the Wilds Gods existed.
Nothing in Chronicles contradicts it.
If there is, please show me. You said I’m missing context, so I’m curious what you think I’m missing.
So, to Summarize, the Highborne of Suramar were inner circle and were some of Azshara’s most fervent supporters up until WOTA. The Highborne and Azshara despised Hyjal. By the time trio went to look for Cenarius, the majority of Night Elves didn’t believe Cenarius existed.
Oh, and even if the trio were from Suramar, they still played key roles in the resistance and the takedown of Azshara. So, again, those who actively worked to reform their society and undo Azshara’s evil were rewarded. Those who hid or were directly part of Azshara’s forces did not receive those blessings. It’s pretty cut and dry.
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Its not “just” about liking the story. I don’t like the current story that we are seeing now. But I am not making up nonsense.
Were Night Elves genocided? Yes. Were they brought close to extinction? yes. The novella said so. Were souls obliterated? yes. The quests said so.
This isn’t headcanoning on breadcrumbs, the devs are literally spelling it out for us and people are reacting to it.
And then we have the “um ackwuallies” popping about to minimize it so its not a “big” deal to react about.
Wrong, they are reactions to what is being communicated.
Blizzard decided to burn the tree, write the novellas, leave the warfronts in limbo for years, show prisoners getting tortured, souls blown up and etc and etc to bring us back to another effing tree and some single tear moment regarding hope and renewal rather than the revenge and justice the audience wanted years ago.
The Night Elves will 100% still be there in Kalimdor handing out greens and XP if there ever is a revamp. Just as there will be Orcs in Ashenvale chopping down trees and NE Sentinels trying to stop them. These tropes and level designs will stay but the Capital city and where the bulk of the invisible citizenry of the Night Elves will be in their New Home in Amirdrassil one green portal away.
That’s the new Night Elf home and everywhere else… contested territory.
Yeah. A small sect. Not the entire Suramar citizenry that got bubbled you are posting references that support my point.
You are missing the part where it says the mountain is holy to the Kaldorei.
The english language disagrees with you and until you fully grasp it I am afraid you will be stuck where you are.
Finally they don’t need to rejoin anything.
Its theirs, they have a claim on it, regardless of how long its been, their personal belief’s. Its theirs.
And by that extension the Horde’s.
Page 103:
Suramar and the Pillars of Creation: As battles raged across Kalimdor, one group of Azshara’s servants grew increasingly concerned for their own future. This small sect of Highborne sorcerers acted as an extension of the queen’s will. From their headquarters in Suramar, they engaged in covertactivities aimed at securing Azshara’s rule and strengthening the empire.
Acting as an extension of the queen’s will sounds pretty damn inner circle.
And again, you keep dodging the entire section I posted from the Encyclopedia.
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Over time, however, the night elves were increasingly drawn to the cosmic energies of the Well. Furthermore, the rapid growth of the night elf civilization led inevitably to the creation of new buildings and roads. Large tracts of forest vanished. Tranquil woodlands turned into sprawling cities, and great trees were warped and twisted into shapes that would better serve as night elf dwellings. The night elves were losing touch with nature.
The number of night elves pursuing their studies with the demigod dwindled, and Cenarius was grieved to realize that all his work had been for naught. Reluctantly he departed night elf lands. He resolved that he would respect their choice, however much he disagreed with it. From that point forward, Cenarius retreated into the wilds of the world and avoided most sentient races until they came to doubt his very existence.
Millennia before the night elves’ interest in arcane magic led to the Great Sundering, Malfurion Stormrage came across several legends that referenced the mysterious Cenarius. Malfurion had always had great reverence for the natural world, although the night elves as a race had long since abandoned any interest in such matters. He shared these legends with his twin, Illidan Stormrage, and their mutual friend, Tyrande Whisperwind. The three night elves decided that it would be an exciting adventure to search for Cenarius, though in truth they no more believed in the demigod than the rest of their people did.
So, no, the lowborne of Suramar did not believe in Cenarius or Hyjal as a holy place.
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I am not dodging, I am literally pointing out they are saying only a small sect was involved in Suramar rather than the entire population.
The average citizen did not even know Hyjal was were Cenarius was even located. Its in Chronicles, they viewed it as holy because it was being preserved by their leaders.
Whom preserved it out of necessity rather than religion but the bulk of the people viewed it as holy exactly because of this.
Its hilarious situation but its still the funny situation thats its holy for all the wrong reasons.
But its still holy as per chronicles.
Ah, here we go, page 95. You missed some key details, oopsies.
“There was, however, one location Azshara and her forces avoided: Mount Hyjal. The spirits and demigods who roamed the sylvan forests unsettled the queen. She knew in her bones that Hyjal was somehow beyond her influence. It was a place steeped in ancient magic, a wild, untameable, and unchangeable land that stood in STARK CONTRAST to her vision of a new Kalimdor.” So she was afraid of Hyjal because she couldn’t control it.
“Publicly, Azshara prohibited expansion into Hyjal out of respect for the night elves’ ancient kinship with the forests. In truth, she DESPISED the mountain and the harmony it represented. Azshara’s views on Hyjal were well known to Cenarius. With growing unease, he had watched the night elf empire expand. Year by year, he became increasingly frustrated with the hubris and thoughtless actions of the sorcerous Highborne. The majority of night elf society continued honoring the old ways of revering the wilds. The fact that these folk still lived in harmony with the land warmed Cenarius’s heart, but he know that they had no influence over Azshara and her arrogant followers [the Highborne]”.
Here, I highlighted the parts for you.
The burden of proof is yours now to say I am missing something. Quote Chronicles directly, like I am. It should be easy.
So it’s not worth re-litigating the Shadowlands-era of lore conversations, but we are going to have to agree to disagree on this point. There was definitely loads of BS headcanon being passed off as fact at the time. If you dig through these posts you will see many bold statements about things that ended up being completely off base.
I agree, and I don’t really see anything wrong with that. A return to the Status Quo in Kalimdor, with the main difference being that there is a hub in Amirdrassil instead of Teldrassil.
I think most players want the status quo, with maybe a little plot here and there.
I don’t think it actually matters in this case because the separation, cultural and in terms of actual historical developments, is through such a stretch of time in one continuous place- and depending on the lore you pull out, the Kaldorei by their empires waning years actually wasn’t very devout, there’s a reason Cenarius had moved on from them for so long- that we as actual humans lose all track of our own history and cultural development in any way beyond vague terms at just like half the length, even much less usually.
Even if laws were still in place prohibiting expansion on the mountain, that doesn’t mean that average citizens viewed it as holy. Or, as Valeclaw said, it doesn’t even mean they know WHY the laws are in place.
Right now, we have no evidence that the shal’dorei currently view Hyjal as a sacred place. If you can find any that states that for all 15,000 years the Shal’dorei revered Hyjal, please let me know.
Especially because the ‘sacredness’ of it wasn’t actually why Azshara made the law- which in itself speaks to the fact that they likely weren’t devoted enough in beliefs about the mountain to question their queen at all. She just didn’t want to provoke the wild gods.
Facts matter, there was no headcanon, I was there, I saw it all. If you want you can call it hyperbolic complaints but they were based on actual lore rather than falsehoods.
The issue people have is that this status quo change favors the Horde for disgusting actions. I understand the complaint and I think so do you.
The book literally says they viewed it as holy.
This was also present in war of the ancients, Hyjal is a holy place in Night Elf culture.
Some may take that culture seriously, some may not but it still was holy. You can keep spinning it how others are undeserving due to creed to justify rights and claim but Chronicles is very clear.
Yeah I already mentioned that.
I mean i’m annoyed by that but I am way more annoyed by selling out the core fantasy of my race.
Some were faithful enough to actually trust in those beliefs and flee to it FROM SURAMAR, the Nightborne stayed.
everything is being sold, there is nothing sacred.
The question is, do you find the sale enjoyable. thats all that matters.
Me? Not so much but at least its pretty.
Sure but none of this invalidates anything officially. This just came down to personal decisions and the best recourse of staying safe and alive.