Mostly Reasonable Hunter Adjustment Suggestions

Edits:

  • Reduced Hunter GCD (Less Short Shortlist). Potencies (%AP values) not yet adjusted to match.
  • Some technicalities simplified in the writing (relegated to parentheticals).

The Shortlist (the basics)

  • The damage penalty applied by Animal Companion now applies only to the animal companion. Other summons such as Spitting Cobra and A Murder of Crows are not affected.
  • Dash is now a toggle automatically activated when your pet has an auto-attack readied and/or special attack readied (with sufficient Focus) and is out of range of its target, or is at full Focus regardless. While active, your pet regenerates no Focus.
  • Revive Pet cast time reduced to 3 seconds (down from 4) and Focus cost to 30 (down from 35), but your pet now revives with only 60% HP.
  • Trueshot reworked.

    Trueshot – Increases your Haste by 25% while increasing the rate by which your Focus regenerates and damaging shots recharge by 50%.

  • Kill Command damage increased by ~15%.
  • Raptor Strike damage increased by ~15%, Mongoose Bite damage by ~12%.
  • Bursting Shot cone widened and lengthened by 30% and now pushes enemies back in an arc heightened and lengthened with proximity. Additionally, it will now push enemies towards the center of the cone’s outer edge, offering more control over how it positions them.
  • Mastery: Spirit Bond (Survival) scaling buffed to 1% per 12 points of Mastery, improved from 1% per ~21.2 points.
  • Mastery: Master of Beasts (Beastmastery) scaling buffed to 1% per 17 points of Mastery, improved from 1% per ~18.4 points.
  • Flayed Shot revised to give some AoE value and greater proc functionality:

    Flayed Shot – 30-second cooldown. Flay your enemy’s spirit, dealing (200% of Attack Power) Shadow damage to it and enemies within 8 yards over 15 seconds while causing your Kill Shots to refund their Focus cost and deal 20% more damage. Each time of Flayed Shot deals damage, it has a 15% chance to grant an extra charge of Kill Shot that can be used within the next 10 seconds on any target regardless of their current health.

    • Flayed Shot is guaranteed at least 1 proc per use. The bonus charge of Kill Shot will not be consumed if your regular Kill Shot could have been used anyways.
      • These changes collectively allow for Flayed Shot to deal uncapped AoE damage while still remaining centered about focus-target damage and for greater fit alongside the original Kill Shot. It should thus feel synergetic with Deadeye, rather than dependent on it for a functional design.
  • Death Chakram revised to allow for AoE scaling:

    Death Chakram – 45-second cooldown. Throw a deadly chakram that will quickly bounce once each between up to 5 nearby enemies before converging on your primary target to attack it for the remainder of its total of 6 strikes.

    Each time the chakram deals damage, its damage is increased by 100% and you generate 4 Focus.

    • With these changes, Death Chakram’s single-target damage is unchanged (or, changed only from 367% AP to 367.5%), but it now scales noticeably with AoE.
    • To speak concretely, it deals 682.5% AP at 2 targets (+85.7%), 945% AP at 3 targets (+157%), 1155% AP at 4 targets (+214%), 1312.5% AP at 5 targets (+257%), and 1417.5% AP (+286%) at 6 targets. It obvious doesn’t scale as linearly as Wild Spirits, but the lower the target count, the greater the focus damage. This should offer it a significant enough niche, especially given the Focus regeneration (24, up from 21), without it losing applicability to more AoE-centric content.

The Less Short Shortlist (with some modifications to the above)

  • Hunter GCD reduced to 1.25 seconds.
    • This seems a comfortable middle-ground for Hunter — more responsive than most specs, but not so frenetic or likely to animation-cancel as, say, a Rogue. This should better capture the feeling of a Hunter than would a 1-second GCD while leaving the spec less open to issues from latency or of animation-clipping.

    NOTE: Skill %AP values not yet adjusted to compensate in the writing below, as the buffs would be difficult visualize as buffs when seeing a lower %AP value than previous, even if it ultimately amounts to a greater potency per minute. Assume that fillers will be nerfed accordingly, frequent rotational skills like Aimed Shot nerfed somewhat, and infrequent rotation skills like Explosive Shot nerfed barely at all, such that each still produces about the same potency per minute as would be the case under a 1.5s GCD given the changes below.

  • Aimed Shot cooldown reduced to 10 seconds. Damage reduced from 236% AP to 200% (equal to current Kill Shot).
  • Kill Shot cooldown now scales with Haste.
  • Rapid Fire cooldown now scales with Haste.
  • Aimed Shot cast time reduced to 2 seconds (technically, 5/3s GCD). Rapid Fire channel time increased to 2 seconds (technically, ~5/3s GCD). Steady Shot cast time reduced to 1.7 seconds (technically, 4/3s GCD).
This is concerned with reducing "clunkiness" as it applies to 'resolution':
  • Resolution refers the ratio by which one skill must be used to one or more others in order to ensure that the highest priority skill among them (e.g., Rapid Fire) can hold perfect uptime (being used instantly upon cooldown refresh without delaying casts to do so), and the number of times each, or the most “filler”, skill must be cast to “get things back on sync”.
  • Previously, this was rather complex and in many circumstances desync was unavoidable without sacrificing more valuable uptime elsewhere, causing skill alignment to feel “clunky”. With these changes, it is far simpler to manage and the worst case scenario requires less than half as many Steady Shots to resolve.
  • In the current version these 3 skills resolved decently under perfect play but the number of uses to cycle back to the norm and correct any malalignments were too high to really correct “mistakes” since Steady Shot casts at 7/6ths a GCD, Rapid Fire at 4/3rds a GCD and, and Aimed Shot at 5/3rds a GCD. Essentially, any need to burst out Precise Shots ahead of a Steady Shot, or greater obligatory non-Steady GCDs such as via Explosive Shot or Volley, could quickly make for a subtle disconnect whereby one had to hold Rapid Fire for a Steady Fire cast or intervening GCD (usually the lesser evil), or hold uptime for a bit to use it as soon as it refreshed. This had, to some, made MM subtly “clunky”.
  • The damage bonus of Precise Shots has been reduced from 75% to 50%. To compensate, the base damage of Arcane Shot has been increased from 57% AP to 68% (+19.3%), Chimaera Shot from 65% to 75% AP (+15.4%), and Multi-Shot from 37.5% to 42% (+12%).
  • Spitting Cobra damage has been increased by ~50% and now spawns during Bestial Wrath instead of at its end. It thus enters the battle still ramping up, but has been given a higher floor to compensate.

    Spitting Cobra – A Spitting Cobra will aid you during Bestial Wrath. Each Cobra Shot you use during Bestial Wrath increases its damage by 10%.

  • Calling the Shots reworked to reduce its anti-synergy with Flayed Shot and Surging Shots.

    Calling the Shots – Every 10 Focus you consume reduces the cooldown of Trueshot by 1 second.

  • Deadeye subtly readjusted.

    Deadeye – Kill Shot has 2 charges and causes your damaging ranged attacks to recharge 50% faster for 3 seconds.

    • Because this now also affects Rapid Fire, it no longer necessarily drives one nearer to Focus starvation. Additionally, this already carried synergy with Careful Aim; now it merely does likewise with Barrage and Explosive Shot.
  • Stomp now waits until the target reaches the Barbed Shot target to Stomp. Multiple stomps can be queued.
  • Barrage damage increased from 14.196% of Attack Power per shot to 15% (a 5.6% buff).
  • Explosive Shot AoE damage decreased from 188.5 to 175% of Attack Power. However, Explosive Shot now also strikes the initial target for 50% Attack Power on application.
    • This is a DPS increase at 3 or fewer targets, roughly even at 4, and a faint nerf at 5 and 6, to make Explosive more a middle option and give Barrage more of a place as a wholly AoE option.
  • Mastery: Mastery of Beasts adjusted:

    Mastery: Mastery of Beasts – Increases the damage bonus of Bestial Wrath by (5+X)% and the damage dealt by your pets by (15+3X)%.

    • The base percent damage bonus of Bestial Wrath has been reduced to 20%. This will appear unchanged, however, as a 5% bonus to Bestial Wrath is the Mastery’s minimum.
    • This should help to gradually let BM carve out a burstier niche for itself.
    • To compensate, scaling will be rolled back to 1% per 18.5 stat, down from per 17 stat.
  • Disengage buffed.
    • It now continuously propels you in the direction opposite your facing at time of activation, very quickly, for .7 seconds. During this time, the player is still able to offset this movement through normal player control (e.g. auto-run, WASD, or holding left and right mouse buttons)—the only difference being that backpedaling (moving via S) is not penalized. Upon activation, movement speed is increased by 70%, fading over 3 seconds.
      • This propulsion still works in midair and will cancel falling momentum; we still needn’t fear death by gravity.
      • In effect, a lesser variant of Posthaste is now baseline and Disengage is less susceptible to losing distance travelled due to awkward terrain or verticality. It is by far and away the best backstep in the game, and the best mover in general that does not require a target destination.
  • Posthaste revised slightly to still be worth taking despite this baseline buff:

    Posthaste – Disengage also frees you from all movement impairing effects and its movement speed bonus fades over a further 5 seconds. Additionally, the cooldown of Disengage (and Harpoon) are decreased by 5 seconds.


Nitpicks and Further (Jumbled) Thoughts. WIP. Readers beware.
  • You may now use Misdirection on mounted allies. However, they will only receive the generated threat once they dismount, and must do dismount before Misdirection’s duration ends to benefit.
  • Misdirection may now be cast while casting/channeling. It will no longer interrupt Rapid Fire, for instance.
  • Dismiss Pet’s cast time has been reduced to 2 seconds and it may now be cast while moving.
  • You may now summon another pet even when another is already summoned. This has a 2 second cast time and may be cast while moving (i.e., this merely skips the extra GCD to resummon after dismissing one’s pet).
  • Trailblazer is now essentially baseline, under the name On the Move:

    On the Move – Every 1.5 seconds, your movement speed increases by 15%, stacking up to two times. Attacking removes a stack of On the Move and all progress towards the next stack.

  • Trailblazer has been replaced with Waymaker:

    Waymaker – You and your pets ranged and movement skills create a wake behind them, increasing the movement speed of allies moving in the same direction across the same area at an amount based on the potency of the attack or speed of travel.

    • This is more of a positionally-dependent group-supportive talent that encourages moving into melee range just before key mechanics from which melee must escape and Disengaging to make an accelerated path out for them or Misdirecting and pulling packs to accelerate everyone’s way in when no mounts are available.
  • Natural Mending has been replaced by Primal Momentum:

    Primal Momentum – Every 30 Focus you spend reduces the cooldown of Exhilaration, Aspect of the Cheetah, and Aspect of the Turtle by 1 second.

  • Born to be Wild changed to Above All, Adapt

    Above All, Adapt – Your Aspect of the Cheetah and Aspect of the Turtle now share 3 charges.

  • Beast Cleave percentile reduced to ~50%, down from 75%, but now includes the damage of Kill Command.
  • Bloodshed revised:

    Bloodshed – Command your target to tear into your target, causing it for 15 seconds to bleed for (15% of Attack Power) each second and to take 15% more damage from your pet’s attacks. Any enemies nearby are struck for half this duration.

  • Carve damage increased to 40% of AP, up from 28%.
  • Wildfire Bomb damage over time decreased from 90% to 75% of Attack Power.
  • Wildfire Bomb now consumes 10 Focus, up from 0; Carve consumes 30 Focus, down from 35.
    • This should smooth out Focus flow a bit while making the Focus cost values a little more standard and intuitive. Additionally, it should better allow one to open with Wildfire Bomb in situations where Serpent Sting isn’t much worth casting, without being wasteful.
  • Streamline reworked:

    Streamline – Rapid Fire now increases your Haste by 12%, fading over 8 seconds.

  • Steady Focus reworked:

    Steady Focus – Maximum focus increased by 20. Steady Shot decreases the casting time of Steady Shot by 15% for 5 seconds. Multiple applications may overlap, to a maximum of a 45% decrease to casting time.

  • Mongoose Bite reworked to ramp up more quickly and be less precisely window-centric while offering some AoE interplay.

    Mongoose Bite – A brutal attack that deals (100% of Attack Power) damage and grants Mongoose Fury.
    Mongoose Fury – Increases the damage of Mongoose Bite and Carve (Butchery) by 20% for 6 seconds. Multiple applications may overlap.

  • Binding Shot revised for greater enemy control.
    • Binding Shot no longer roots, but instead prevents enemies from exiting into/through the area whereat they would previously be rooted. Rather than enemies potentially leaping out of Binding Shot and becoming bound at some distant location, they are no longer able to leave in the first place until having removed the snare. Binding Shot is also no longer dispellable, since it no longer roots, but its duration of its initial effect (attaching the binds, and now thereby locking them within the circle) is halved against players.
  • A Murder of Crows reworked:

    A Murder of Crows – 2 minute cooldown. Call down 5 crows upon your target for up to 15 seconds, each dealing (5% of Attack Power) damage per second. Crows gain attack speed for 6 seconds based on their target’s missing HP. These crows may be manually spread out or directed to a new target, but will automatically pursue engaged enemies nearby if their target dies, prioritizing those most wounded.

    The cooldown of A Murder of Crows is reduced slightly each time a Crow hits, and a further 5 seconds each time you kill an enemy.

    • Much like Storm, Earth, and Fire, while A Murder of Crows is active, the button is replaced by Spread, which causes the crows to spread among the 5 most wounded enemies and is in turn replaced by Fixate, causing them to again collapse onto your primary target.
      • Crows retain that attack speed bonus through death. Once they’ve killed an enemy, they remain ramped up (+100% attack speed) for the remaining duration.
  • Terms of Engagement revised to better benefit from chained kills.

    Terms of Engagement – Harpoon instantly deals (25% Attack Power) damage and causes your Focus spenders for the next 8 seconds to refund half their cost, to a maximum of 30 Focus thereby refunded. Killing an enemy resets the cooldown of Harpoon.

    • In this way, chained kills and uses of Harpoon can take as little as 2 GCDs (baseline, 3 seconds) to consume fully, down from 10 seconds.
  • Steel Trap now takes damage equal to 600% of your Attack Power before breaking its immobilization effect against non-players.
  • Birds of Prey reworked to reduce anti-synergy with other talents and borrowed powers.

    Birds of Prey – Every 30 Focus consumed during Coordinated Assault extends its duration by 1.5 seconds.

  • Mastery: Spirit Bond replaced with Mastery: Coordination.

    Mastery: Coordination – Striking an enemy with a pet-based, melee, or ranged attack will cause your next attack of a different type to deal additional damage equal to (10+X)% of the damage dealt by the previous type.

    • I.e., if you shoot an enemy with Serpent Sting and Kill Shot, (10+X)% of that combined ranged damage dealt will be added to your next Kill Command or melee attack against that enemy.
  • Stat points required per % increase adjusted from 14.27 [suggested to change to 8 above] to 24. (This is nearer to that of Haste [~22.2] than Versatility [~27].)
    • This offers unique burst opportunities, such as by mass-DoTing before a Carve before a Volatile Bomb (for a synergetic/quadratic effect on the explosions forming off each target); its shortcoming is that sometimes you would not wish to spend stored bonus damage on, say, Kill Command, and one generates no Mastery bonus from their killing blow. Stylistically, this causes all setup to feel like it has potentially heavy payoff.
4 Likes

So, Aimed Shot and Kill Shot would do identical damage?
While I don’t know what the current AP percentage is for Aimed Shot, I do find Kill Shot weak.
Why exactly do you suggest An Aimed Shot damage reduction?
I admire the thought you have put into your post.

I’m writing this response like 10 minutes after I woke up, so you’ll have to forgive me if I wasn’t clear.

It’s obvious that you put a lot of thought into this, and a good number of your suggestions are, indeed, sensible.

The one big thing that I’m unsure on is your suggestion of a 1.25 sec GCD and 2.08 sec cast for some of the MM abilities.

We’ve never seen Blizzard use numbers like these. They prefer to go for… I’m struggling to come up with the proper word in English… hm, “well-rounded” numbers that either end in an 0 or 5.

The reason I’m talking about that is because player perspective matters. A good chunk of players are gonna look at those numbers and immediately go, “UGH, THAT’S WAY TOO CONFUSING.”

Numbers that end in 0 and 5 are the easiest numbers for our brains to work with, I think.

SO… what I’m saying is, I don’t think it’s a good idea to over-complicate some things; go with a 1-second GCD and 2-second cast times. :slightly_smiling_face:

Edit: Click the triangles below to expand my responses. (Responses hidden, via toggle, for thread readability.)

Aimed Shot is currently 236% AP despite costing 2.5 seconds of uptime and 35 Focus. Kill Shot is 200% AP at 1.5 seconds uptime and 10 Focus.

While I can understand the feeling that Kill Shot is weak, in that it might not finish off the target in situations you’d think it surely should, it’s probably worth comparing it to other skills that we don’t necessarily find “weak”:

Kill Shot hits for more than double an Rogue’s Ambush (assuming no Nightstalker, which itself varies in value between specs), known to provide massive opening damage if they forgo Cheap Shot in favor of killing you directly.

Kill Shot hits for only 34% less than a fully charged Arms’ Execute, despite being a Hunter’s cheapest attack vs. an Arms Warrior’s most expensive (requiring up 3.7 to 7.1 seconds of melee uptime, or a nominal 5.76 seconds, to afford).

Kill Shot has 533% of the direct damage and only 23% less total damage than a Feral Frenzy, a 45 second cooldown that was strong enough to warrant removing from possible Convoke actions in PvP alongside Full Moon.

Kill Shot hits for only 1.4% less than the average damage of New/Half/Full Moon, and only 33% less than Full Moon, which takes 31-45 seconds to set up.

While I more often wish it finished off what I was targeting, Kill Shot isn’t comparatively weak, especially given how incredibly resource-efficient it is.

Because both its own direct damage and the throughput value that comes from Precise Shots have been made more frequent by Aimed Shot being reduced to a 10-second cooldown.

To be clear, all tuning here is spitball for the time being. I try to focus on the gameplay, cohesion, and functionality first, then breadth and parity of choices through all things short of tuning, and the tuning last.

And I admire your tenacity in reading through this work in progress.

Hopefully I’ll one day have this organized and well-put enough to be worthy of admiration on more than a basis of effort alone, haha.


That’s a fair point, and the post has already bounced back and forth between writing everything for a 1-second GCD and the hybrid 1.25-second GCD a few times.

Let me clear here. You will never see a number like 2.08 (which is in fact already 2.833-barred), because the game only goes to one decimal place in-game for cast times within tooltips. If they were somehow running less than 2% Haste, they would see a 2.1 second cast time on Aimed Shot, but such is the rarity, not the norm.

Already, at anything over 2% Haste, the current Aimed Shot turns into a “2.4-second” cast, after all, yet this has never confused anyone.

I ultimately went with the hybrid 1.25-second GCD over the 1-second GCD because of Haste often being the most desired stat of BM and SV, such that in Corruption-packed BfA I could get to the point where ping became a noticeable factor and my animations would clip into one another.

While BfA provides some minor protection from this through its soft-caps, they are not sufficiently punishing to avoid these problems if I had started the GCD from 1.25 seconds, let alone 1. The rest I’ve tried to cover my making the Masteries more lucrative. Certain builds of BM, for instance, especially involving the RPF lego, will already find Critical Strike decently appealing as well. That said, I still couldn’t be sure it could survive a 1-second GCD.

Moreover, a true 1-second GCD just didn’t quite seem to fit the feeling we’ve gotten used to from the Hunter specs the last few expansions. It seemed—to me, at least—a bit frenetic, lacking in that sense of deliberateness or forcefulness we’ve come to expect from a Hunter button-press.

Splitting the difference thus felt the better fit and avoided more of the ping and animation-related problems I most worried about.

…That said, none of this is set in stone—I may yet return to the 1-second GCD—and I’ll more than likely rerelease this thread when I have a firmer grasp on what all is worth suggesting. This was more of a trial run, and I probably should have phrased its title as such. My apologies.

I like how anyone who played hunter for atleast a month can come up with a better design for an entire class. Yet we haven’t heard anything from devs for more than half a year. This is one dire situation.

skeleton crew

1 Like

I damn near missed your replies to both my and Watermists posts.
That little right-facing triangle after our quoted statements meant nothing to me.
at first, I thought you were using the Tauren’s post to reply to my post.
So, I was going to ask about that, re-using a quote, and that caused your ENTIRE reply to show. A good thing. I have to go wrestle with a mowing deck, later perhaps, I’ll get back to you on your reply.

Sorry about that; I just didn’t want you guys’ posts to end up way spread out, making it difficult to see each other’s feedback, just because my responses got real wordy.

More like a literal skeleton, and the janitors lost the key to the office.

1 Like

i made a thread to try to channel all ideias for improvements there help please

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/hunter-megathread-svbmmm/902107

1 Like

These all sound lik great ideas, hell any thought put into this class would be appreciated, I feel lije the devs just drool on the keyboard when working on hunters and hit enter.

Revive Pet shouldn’t even be a thing for BM Hunters - in PvP at least. Killing our pet is the equivalent of permanently disarming a Warrior or Rogue and the only way to arm themselves again is with an interruptable 4 second cast. I think our pet should be on the same DR table as disarm and should spontaneously return to life after a few seconds. It’s simply too easy to completely negate a BM Hunter by killing their pet - which is entirely too squishy right now.

Oh look, amazing suggestions that will all be ignored.

But great suggestions though except for Trueshot, I feel like it needs further changes? It’s really rather weak. Maybe increase critical strike chance or damage of abilities during it’s duration might help and give it some MM flavor.

I agree completely.

Corrections for said squishiness are coming soon. I’m just deciding between DR, HP, and Stagger.

While Haste doesn’t provide the dynamism of a damage increase (it increases average ppgcd over window more so that in-window ppgcd and is thus less exploitable via high-ppgcd attacks), Heroism is still no joke, after all, and is only 5% more Haste than is provided to Trueshot here.

I also prefer Haste over Crit largely because I feel MM should have varied playflow, and Haste affects gameplay in ways Crit, short of gameplay-affecting procs like BfA’s Master Marksman (I’ll omit for now the long explanation for why I didn’t bring that back), never could.

I may, however, change the Focus regeneration increase to a Focus cost decrease, which would better allow one to exploit higher spenders like Aimed Shot and Barrage, though it’d then have lesser synergy with skills like Kill Shot.

:: To be clear, the 50% recharge rate increase affects all native damaging shots, even Explosive, Barrage, and Sniper, but does not presently affect Flayed Shot (as it’s not a class skill, exactly, but rather a Covenant one and would otherwise force MM towards Venthyr). You can consider this a smoother way of taking 7.5 seconds off the recharge of each.

Having said that… that’s a bit weak as a bonus feature. I think I may double it and the focus regen bonus and see how that’d work out, haha.

(All this would need to be adjusted anyways for the 1.25s GCD suggested in the second section.)

Let me know if any iterations seem particularly worthwhile to you, or even if you want to spitball something and get feedback on it. I’ve recently started running some A, B, C comparisons of different skills (such as in my “3 Flavors of Flayed Shot” thread), but it’d take forever to make a separate thread for every skill being adjusted here. I’ll therefore likely compile subject-specific feedback at the top of the OP.

1 Like