Appropriate rewards for the difficulty.
You should actually expect to get less Ilvl rewards from delves, it definitely ain’t increasing.
Delve Champion and the occasional Hero-track loot are fine as they are. You can run T11s at much lower gear levels than recommended on certain classes/specs, which shows the gear rewarded is adequate to do the content. Rewarding Myth-track items will only serve to inflate your gear level and not necessarily prepare you for greater Delve challenges.
If you want to make that little number on your character sheet go higher, then, well, you have M+. Or raids.
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I think we are talking about different things.
I’m talking about not making drastic changes to the loot available.
Damage tuning is going to happen.
And in regards to the loot, this is new. Delves existing at the same time m+ and raids do, and providing the loot that they provide is a new thing and we have not seen how it will change play patterns over the course of a season yet.
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because wow’s progression systems are a known, algebraic equation and it’s trivial to know “how it changes things” by taking relevant rates of acquiring, player interest, etc.
eg, it is already known that by running 2 delves a week at d8 for 16 weeks with great rng you will be full mid-tier heroic raid geared. we don’t need to wait for 16 weeks to know that.
we also know that by handing tanks and healers mid mythic gear in delves, it has had a draining effect on the number of people required to do mythic 2-6, which has lead to more dps waiting longer for queues. “wait and see” would be this bizarre assertion that people get geared up in X weeks from now and jump into mythic+? Nah. By that time you’ll be choosing from 90%+ fully saturated high IO score players, instead of just like 50% now.
Wanna see a “state of the game?” Get a level 80 alt tank and make an m2 group and see the ilvls of dps and their scores applying. someone who actually needs the gear is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay lower than most applying.
I’ve seen you multiple times in a lot of thread trying to bash delve rewards. Why don’t you go do some +15 M+ and leave us alone.
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Oh boy
Sweetie get the shield ready.
I’d love this as well.
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But you don’t know if people will run delves for 16 weeks en mass or move on.
If they move on, you don’t know if they are largly going to be cocky jumping striaght into mid m+ levels or give things a go a lower levels, learning while outgearing things.
You can accurately predict what ilvl people will be at if they run x delves over y weeks, but exactly how the player base responds is harder. In particular how solo players will respond is harder to understand. Delves could end up having a strong conversion rate of pushing solo players into trying group content after they overgear the entry point. We don’t know yet and they have not been shown to cause any harm to other systems yet. So I wouldn’t increase ilvl from delves, but I also wouldn’t nerf ilvl from delves.
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Would rather see them do a little more with follower dungeons tbh. Delves are fine for what they are currently imo. As of now fd’s are a useless feature other than getting a quest done. Delves feel like more of a little scenario, than a dungeon.
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Nah I expected the contrarian bait threads like this to happen when people started asking for nerfs. It’s only natural on these forums.
But overall I don’t think my stance of “Don’t nerf the rewards, don’t buff them either, but tune the content instead.” is a bad one. I think that’s a good place to start.
FD’s are where I farm most of my weavercloth. Instant queue and the drop rate isn’t bad in a solo FD.
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Im of the camp of, dont nerf the power of them, but reign in the amount you get per week, the amount of drops you can get for how little effort it takes combined with how good they are, is beyond banana bonkers when you look at it in context of the history of wows gearing progression.
Never, in any point in time have you been able to gear at or past normal raid this early, with this little effort to do so, its honestly wild to see and be a part of.
Or buff normal drops.
Given there are 2 difficulties above normal and blizz only keep adding gearing options outside of raiding (crafted gear is amazing and storymode can reward 619) it could be that blizz wants people moving past normal pretty quickly.
There is no doubt in my mind that internally blizz considers mythic raids to be the real raids and they want more people in mythics.
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totally agree
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No, they dont.
only about 1% of people see mythic raids.
And even then they balance it around Weak auras unfortunately.
If anything you can consider heroic raiding the “Real” raiding in terms of the effort/difficulty and time needed to complete it.
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I do agree they don’t need to nerf the gear or the delves. I’m not sure I’d agree with fixing the key thing for a few reasons but may agree they could say no stockpiling but you get an extra key per week or something to even it out. They could also cap the total you can have at one time but not sure how I feel about feeling forced to use something before I have the gear to utilize it. I already hate the Valorstone cap with a passion…
That said, you only get 4 keys per week from chests and can form maybe another 2-3 keys easily per week? I’m not sure because I have only formed 2 keys so far since EA. Then, you can only use a max of 4 keys per day on the available bountiful delves. At the start you have extra keys from renown etc but those will be gone for most players probably this week. Also, just like any other aspect of PvE, gear comes quick the first few weeks because you need every slot and everything and anything is an upgrade. This always levels out.
The gear from the keys is typically garbage you already have or don’t want. Do you want to know how many trash trinkets I gotten? I’d estimate at least 50% of the time I get a useless trinket… I have done over 20 or so T8+ bountiful delves and have one usable 610 trinket (was a special treasure map buff item similar to time rift guarantee drop encapsulate), one usable 606 (hero) trinket, one usable 603 (Champ) pair of shoulders. In addition, I have two pieces of 616 (hero) gear from the vault. All the other gear I have gotten has been duplicates, wrong stats, an item no better for the same slot or lower than the slot of items I already have. It isn’t the paradise or waterfall of gear people make it out to be. You can gear up faster in Mythic dungeons with a better track gear.
I do not do raiding at the moment on that character nor do I do any Mythic grinding. I only PvP and do delves. Due to the crests etc needed that I will likely not easily get, I imagine he will be capped around ilvl 616 by the end of the season.
One thing I will agree with is delves are too easy and Blizzard folded too quickly to nerfing them. I just did a T8 on my warlock who is ilvl 508. Granted Brann is 34 but still. That should not be possible at all. I liked the challenge when I did my first T8+ delve and sometimes it still can be but absolutely no where near when I started solo. Figuring out strats, talents etc to work to get past certain things was awesome. My biggest qualm is I wish they didn’t think a mob needed a trillion health to be ‘difficult’. Increasing health is just annoyingly slow and not a challenge.
8, you can get 8 keys a week, very easy.
Just as an FYI
Especially since we pay the same month fee…
How are they easier?
By being monumentally easier to deal with.
The mechaincs of T8 delves are the same 2 mechanics that have been in the game for 20 years.
Interrupt/mitigate the spell cast. Stay out of the bad circle on the ground.
Thats it, if you are able to deal with those 2 things you can slow pull the entire delve one to 2 mobs at a time.
Delves also hit for a fraction of the damage compared to a M+.
T11 delve boss hits for about 3m for his big AOE, uninterruptable, unavoidable blast. What i would give to ONLY be hit for 3m by things in a 7+
On top of that you are only dealing with one person, vs 4 other people.
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I am not bothered at all about not completing higher levels, if I am unable. What I find not at all okay, is doing a tier where I am geared for, such as a t4 and suddenly the mobs are coming at me as if it were an 8. I have completed an 8 on my BM hunter.
Why do they have to be so difficult I have to do lower delves to survive? Yeah, yeah get good. Other people can strive for end game capabilities. I consider myself casual. I play daily, but am not going for ranked content.
Let me ask you, why do you care if I get good gear from delves when I will never be playing at your skill level.
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