Thats right, I’m sorry. I forgot that in vanilla they isolated themselves under a magic dome, almost akin to the Greymane wall, and their research wizards were inherently hostile to the undead in Silverpine.
It was anti-war commentary, criticism of US internment camps during WW2 and a revolutionary take on fantasy “villain” races while engaging in a warfare fantasy. It was a wonderful juxtaposition that has been poorly handled in recent years.
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Because the forsaken were attacking them. Even blizzard have gone on file and stated that they retcon that because it wouldn’t make sense for the kirintor to work with the forsaken after they were attacking them.
However again the Kirintor never withdrew from the Alliance, even now they are technically still members however they don’t involve themselves in the wars between alliance and Horde.
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Dear Dalaran,
Thank you for your unwavering support and kinship in the alliance on behalf of the people of Darnassus.
Yours truly,
Tyrande Whisperwind
P.S.- Don’t worry about Jaina- she can be a real C yoU Next Tuesday.
It’s almost like they want to create a better, more peaceful world…
Well, there was the whole declaring themselves neutral in Legion. If you say you are neutral you are saying you are not part of either. If they are saying you are not part of the Alliance, how much more do you need to consider it withdrawing from the Alliance?
Also, if you are not following through on an Alliance by defending your Allies, you are not really part of the Alliance. By not participating they show they are not part of the Alliance.
Simply put, Dalran is not a part of the Alliance.
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Despite losing and gaining members, the Alliance is still a continuation of the prior iteration. They use an appended name because Lordaeron was destroyed.
Was risen to undeath by the fires of Alexstraza. He was never a member of the scourge, nor Forsaken, nor a Thrall of the Lichking in any way. Every facet of Bolvar’s ascension to the frozen throne was acts of heroism or benevolent miracles. He does not count at all.
Most of this conversation is about how the story seems to depart from what we knew or accepted prior to BtS, so anything after BtS doesnt serve to contradict the general assumptions to the contrary. However, this is a bit hyperbolic. Jaina’s initial reaction is pure repulsion, she wanted to kill Daelin because she assumed he was there as an assassin or a bomb. She was never cool with the fact that he’s undead, she just doesnt blame him. She blames Sylvanas.
But this event isnt about Jaina or Daelin. Its about Lillian Voss character development. Its just a shame that so much “alliance good, horde evil” was shoved into one expansion because this one scene is great storytelling. It serves to show Lillian a new experience. Where she was correct in predicting how Zelling’s family would forsake him, she was surprised by Jaina accepting Daelin as her brother. Both examples of human response to undead are well represented in this arc and it is successfully morally grey… which we love.
The Alliance barely had the troops to spare to hold the lands they controlled before removing the Forsaken regime. The Undercity isn’t even occupied by anyone right now. What is likely being set (at least one could hope) is a commentary about interventionist war, and power vaccuums. With any luck we will have Scarlet extremists attempting to establish a foothold in the previously Forsaken controlled lands, with no shortage of homegrown recruits driven to extremism by Sylvanas, but in no way friendly to the Alliance.
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I’m not trying to dispute the fact that the Alliance gained territory in the 4th war. I am suggesting that one should not get too ahead of one’s self when trying to use the alliance actions in those territories to support any argument. The Alliance has neither committed any atrocities there, nor refrained from committing atrocities there. They won the territories then delt almost immediately with a scourge invasion that is technically still in progress. This is after losing almost its entire navy to the Legion, and losing the Kul-tiran navy to Azshara, before Anduin tells Saurfang that the alliance is fresh out of soldiers, and they basically just handed farmers some swords… which is also before the horde and alliance both needed to work on fighting n’zoth.
Im arguing not to get too excited about the manifest destiny in the Eastern kingdoms, because if there is any verisimilitude left, the alliance will never control those lands before they are lost to a third party.
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The trouble is that all those things that you listed also impact everyone else, and the Horde is in a massively weaker position in the Eastern Kingdoms.
Plus, the presence of Kul Tiras, Gilneas, Stromgarde, and Ironforge as major political and population hubs basically guarantees Alliance dominance in the Eastern Kingdoms.
It’s one of the reasons that the Battle of Stromgarde was such a critical front that both factions poured tons of soldiers and resources into. It was the battle that would determine who would strategically dominate the Lordaeron subcontinent and the Alliance won it.
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Do you have an exact quote? All I remember is Metzen saying he was surprised by it, but he left after working on the opening cinematic when a lot of things probably were not set in stone.
You give it more credit than I do. I think it’s not bad, but Robert Brooks is clearly having to do some fancy footwork to try to cover for the lack of motivation for the war Horde-side.
The Alliance had already determined who would dominate the Subcontinent. Sylvanas knew when she sparked up Teldrassil that Undercity was lost.
Everything you stated otherwise is objectively true… but that doesnt mean the Alliance has the resources to hold the Lordearon region come 10.0 prepatch and if they dont exterminate the Forsaken (who already dont live there anymore because they moved to Orgrimmar as refugees) thats not evidence of how nice the Alliance is. Like I said, they are out of resources. There are no soldiers left to commit atrocities.
That also creates the perfect opportunity for a paramilitary organization to swoop in and save Hillsbrad or Pyrewood from the scourge invasion, winning converts to their cause.
I wish I did. I cant remember if it was Danuser or Afrisabi, but at a Q and A, someone asked a question in response to Danuser’s claim that Sylvanas has been playing a long strategy out that included betraying Varian at the Broken Shore ( I can link that interview if you’d like) which basically asked “If Sylvanas orchestrated her own rise to warchief, why does she have an inner monologue in BtS which laments having the mantle of warchief given to her?” To which the response was that they had a number of possible directions they were considering for her development at the time.
Looking at Quel’thalas on that map and laughing by the way. Masters of geopolitical strategy the Blood Elves aint
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Lol, nope! I imagine that location made more sense when it was founded. It would actually have been interesting if we got the proposed Silvermoon warfront, and would have given Bloodelves reason to continue hating the Alliance.
Do you mean this one?
No follow-up question is mentioned here, or was it in a different interview?
Based on what?
They needed allies and the Alliance first tried to kill them, then refused allying with them, then attacked mid-negotiations.
Not really any better answer outside just letting themselves get screwed.
It was a later q and a, after the community had a chance to digest Danuser’s claims about the Broken Shore. I would speculate that in response, Muehzala’s dialogue was written to smooth out the inconsistencies
I think they are just commenting about the currently isolated location
Then I would indeed like a link to it, because it seems to have flown under the board’s radar. I’d have expected an admission that they hadn’t decided what they were doing with Sylvanas to receive a lot of discussion, especially since they also claim to have things planned out multiple expansions in advance.