Hey feel free to believe whatever you want to believe since it fits your beliefs, you only prove to me of your own inability to think freely xd
Hey everyone, do not follow any guides, you should build characters yourself! Everyone should! Except me, I’m allowed to follow builds and tell everyone they are sheep for wanting to play to the best of their ability! I’m special! I’m not an average player!
Oh! Also I bought a +15 carry from a cutting edge guild on my server. So i can gear my character fast and follow the meta build! But don’t you dare do that! Because only I’m allowed to play how I want. Not you! Because I’m not your average player!
My point is, everyone can play how they want, it’s not up to me, you, a guide, a robot, a dinosaur to tell anyone how or what to build there characters. That’s entirely there choice. It’s their character after all.
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Perhaps it’s just a failure in game design when there has to be a best optimized build.
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Theres always going to be a best something, its been a thing since vanilla, even more now that we have sims, its something that comes with the MMO part of a game, you dont have MMO without competitive gameplay, it goes hand in hand, its just that RPG idealists dont get it.
I don’t know, I’ve played games where it felt good and effective to try different things out and they all mostly worked. I’m sick of the “this is the best way” mentality. I’m also sick of people pressuring others to play the way they want them to.
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It felt good and effective for you, but we all know how far feelycraft goes, and its not far.
You are free to play with people who like to try stuff despite knowing its not optimal cause thats what they like and how they are used to play, just like Jimmy is free to play min maxing his character to push content with his guild cause thats what he likes, you dont bear the truth, neither does Jimmy, your post sounds way too entitled.
This weird look at me I’m so smart crud in a video game is absolutely bizzare. It’s like the weirdos in Classic who act better than others because of how they play the game. Very odd.
I’s a game if you don’t want to play with people who don’t play like you then you can. I, nor you, have to deal with it. If the whole community becomes a bunch of elitist weirdos I’ll just leave.
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Its very odd indeed, thats why you sound entitled thinking that the game should be played in 1 way cause you are bothered by X, when there can be different playstyles that can coexist in this same game, its not the game’s fault, the part of the community you have seen just happens to be the trash one.
I simply eluded to the idea of being able to play multiple effective variations. I don’t care if a bunch of people min/max down to every single thing they can. I just don’t want the game to ‘only’ go down balancing and creating content solely for that.
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The game will still have many choices, so you are free to play and try stuff yourself.
This doesnt change the fact that theres always gonna be a best build, this happens in every game, and it so happens that some people enjoy maxing out their characters in said game.
You can then ask, is it needed? and i would say its subjective, some may say you need 0 min maxing in normal, some may do the cut at heroic, others may argue that only mythic needs it and so on.
In the end, you should play how you like and hopefully find people that think alike, any player that tries to impose their vision onto you or me or anyone, is trash in my eyes.
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The timeline for me can be summed to:
mmorpg Exists
People who enjoy mmorpgs join and have fun, some min max since they plan on doing the hardest possible difficulty the fastest
more people come but since they dont care about the rpg aspects and instead"winning" they start worshipping whatever the min maxers say
Now the same people demand everyone to follow min maxers or refuse to invite them on a +3
And that is a major major problem, because anyone with even half a brain cell knows you dont need a min maxed build for a +3, hell not even for a 15 considering min maxers time 24s-25s rn.
Yet these people are trying to force the ignorant min maxer playstyle(Which they dont understand since they just blindly follow a guide without understanding) to everyone.
And now min maxers act as if we are the ones forcing them
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The problem is Blizzards design usually shoehorns people into only a few viable builds for aoe, single target, and what not. They too often make certain talents or abilities far too weak to be worth using. I understand that it must be hard for them to try to create multiple effective choices, but after years you’d think they’d have a better idea of how to.
I think you’re wasting time arguing things with me that don’t need to be argued about like me accepting how others play.
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That comes down to balancing issues, and it escapes the problem at hand, theres no one forcing you to play the best build, but it so happens that blizz in their not stellar balance (hi corruption) makes some choices way too obvious, and this is a problem obviously, but its a balancing issue, not a mentality issue with the community or forcing playstyles like they make it sound, or even worse players not worthy to play an MMORPG.
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Yeah well whatever it is hopefully they can improve on it. It doesn’t take a min/max’er to beat Heroic for example, just someone able to do enough dps. It could be tons of fun to try new fun builds.
Agree completely, thats why its subjective and hard to make the cut and say from this point on X player needs to min/max, personally i too think that heroic needs no min maxing yet, but some people struggling with their heroic guild progress may find that min maxing could make them push further, and thats fair too, as long as we keep things reasonable i believe its ok.
If you are performing with your non meta build, theres no reason to push you to use the best build you arent used to, you will most likely underperform with it since you arent used to it, this is something most people forget when pushing the min max mentality onto others.
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I enjoyed when WoW was a slower more rpg centric grind back in Wrath. It felt like a marathon to level, but I had fun trying new builds out that weren’t min/max while leveling. I in turn felt a bit more immersed rather than now where I feel like convenience is too often the name of the game. If anything I’d love to see more RPG brought back into WoW like you say.
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I can already sense that this thread has a bunch of “Don’t tell us how to play the game” lines in it.
Err to be honest this isn’t the best hook to get people to see things your way… unless they already agree with you in the first place.
Judging by your first post OP I assume you are not happy with Meta Gaming and lastly you want Covenant choices to matter. Here’s where you are going wrong.
People meta game to meta game it’s been part in parcel of WoW, MMORPGS, RPGS, and Table top RPGs for a long time.
Some players want to be the Best X Class for Best X Race (Dwarf Priest back in Vanilla comes to mind) and only play with people who can give them that edge. They paid for the game so that’s how they get the most out of their money - and people have to play with you so you are placed into positions with certain expectations to meet so you can “Play” the game not so much win. There’s no Winning World of Warcraft. In an MMORPG you set your own goals to achieve.
Ask for Covenants mattering. I think they should matter and I want to put faith in Ion and the Dev team in giving Covenants their fair shot. I know the argument behind it that the locking of player power cannot be balanced because of all the niches that exist in the game. One Covenant could be your PvP best in slot ability, Mythic plus, Raiding… etc… And with each patch these covenant abilities could be nerfed or buffed depending on the whims of the Developers and then all the progress you did in one Covenant could be for nothing. You’d be actively making decisions that would make your character less powerful. Or Worse Reactively having to level up a whole other Covenant to the same place you were at as the first one… and we know Blizzard won’t make that a comfortable choice to make.
Those types of players restricting that power from them because of the choices they make can be painful but they also make those decisions more meaningful.
While you cannot drag people to force them to play a certain way… They cannot force you to enjoy that style of play either.
You can create guilds and communities in the Game itself and still make your choice and play with the folk of a likewise sort of mindset that you have.
Nobody likes to be addressed in a way whereas you openly make the side you disagree with the defacto enemy and the only way we can instill meaningful choices back into WoW the more so it becomes important to address these types of individuals with the most respect because they are the ones you’re trying to convince.
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Well, once you get into a guild, and you plan to raid, YOU no longer have a CHOICE, because you do as the GL/RL say, or you are benched. If you are not pushing out the DPS your class is capable of you get benched.
End of story.
I do not wish pugging on anyone!
Yeah sorry I am not joining any guild with delusional GLs/RLs who think they can tell others the exact way to play the game, that is toxic even more world first standards and these kinds of guilds are not even world first which shows that the real reason such people like to act tough and tell others what to do is because they psychologically NEED to act like tough guys to make their weak IRL self esteem and life feel better.
They are not wiping at heroic because some DPS did not have the mathematically optimal build, they wiped because they were bad and because they often insists on bad strats simply because they want everyone to follow what they say.
Welp, alls i can say is, i really wish i had your crystal ball, and foresight, because i would then be all powerful. Just imagine knowing peoples reasons for everything they do in this game and IRL, AWESOME!
Heck, i would drain lotto dry, they would start accusing me of cheating in some fashion.
LOL!