That’s an illusion of choice, you’re just creating more feral/enchancement cases. You’re creating more “noobtraps”.
Hardcore group can be optimal if they want, that’s not ruining the rpg for you. You can still play suboptimal if you want. Just don’t expect more hardcore group to be lenient if you do. People want to play with individuals that have the same goals, if your goal is to be carried by your group then it’s normal for that group to not want you.
The content is not as fined tuned as wow too, but there’s definitly some stacking done in hardcore groups (8 man raid). You just don’t see it because most content is for casuals. That’s like expecting in wow normal dungeons to have people checking dps meters, I mean it can happen it’s not relevant.
This thread reeks more and more of players that got declined in their attempt to tackle more difficult content XD just enjoy the game with the people that think like you, if you are an rpg lover then enjoy the game with those rpg lover, if you try to play the game with competitive players you wont fit, as simple as that.
You dont see competitive/hardcore players advocating for the removal of non optimal stuff, yet people like Rälph come and say that they are wrong blablabla, seems like its obvious which kind of player wow needs to weed out.
You are following a guide, you are making 0 choices, someone else smarter than you is making them for you
It does ruin RPGs for many of us in case you missed the overwhelming support of the current covenant system when topics like these arise.
The very fact that everyone is LIMITED to dedicate themselves to one covenant and figure out which is gonna work for most of their content instead of simply changing before every single encounter is exactly what makes RPGs fun for us because we want meaningful choices that matter.
The moment you make them into talents there is no choice, most optimal for x boss is a no brainer, there’s no thought required.
Meanwhile having to decide which Covenant to join while you do m+, raids and pvp, you have to THINK which would fit best all of that content and having to accept that you wont be best at X parts. That is an actual choice.
And in case you didnt notice I am not a normie to worship norms or “how things are done for X number of years”.
I find an issue and point it out and how to deal with it, I dont care if something has been done the same for thousands of years, if it is problematic, it is problematic.
For you, not for many, the door is wide open.
That’s not true. Players communicate about their composition and where weaknesses exist and how to adapt to them. They plan their pulls, CD’s, etc. They make all kinds of choices involving all kinds of variables.
What is good for the professionals running the same composition in their Mythic progression/20+ key might not be good for a group of friends running their own Mythic progression raid or +17 key with a completely different composition.
And in the latter group of people - they may have made choices not because it was perfect and ideal, but because it was just something different to try out for fun.
I can say the same to all the whiners who are crying about the current covenant system. And also point out how many of us in these threads support the current system, so maybe the issue is the players who dont play mmorpgs because they like the genre.
This. It’s the elitists, that technical sense of the word, that are buggering it up for everyone else.
The biggest reason I’ve seen people argumenting for covenant is just to spite min/maxer, their feeling of meaningful choice is as empty as when blizzard says it. You can already make a meaningful choice with your race, faction and class.
That is a choice, you have to understand how the boss works and what your group composition need. You don’t respect that kind of reasoning but it’s a valid one.
Or making different characters with different covenant for different activities, the illusion of choice is hard.
They’re quite vocal about how they just enjoy seeing other people miserable when others have to play the game the way THEY want.
They are all happy about removing choice - but then also state that they support player agency.
I don’t think they understand that player agency involves choice - not just being miserable.
From what I’ve gathered, it’s actually the opposite.
The optimal group compositions actually try to have all the different types of utility possible, to cover as broad a range as they can. Some classes may have more specific utility than others (like RDM and SMN being able to rez), but it’s generally more beneficial to have that extra flexibility and utility. You actually want to avoid stuff like having two WHM in a party.
Nevertheless, they key point is – yet again – that the need to optimize isn’t domineering to the overall experience like it is in WoW.
If we did then all there would be left are LFR people.
Yeah keep believing that you are making a meaningful choice with covenants, in the meantime competitive players will have 4 mages, 1 for each covenant, but hey, you made the choice of sticking to 1 covenant, they made the choice of having all 4 to optimize their characters for his group, so many choices bruh.
We had cookie cutter builds in Vanilla and called silly specs memes.
At least up until Cata we would scour Elitist jerks for the best builds, gems, enchants etc.
The only thing different is that’s it’s much easier to find the info. So easy that there is no real excuse to have a bad build any more.
Or because for us, the people that truly enjoy mmoRPGs is something that matters to us.
And I would most likely choose to focus on the people who enjoy the game for its genre rather than the ones who got hooked because it was popular and cool and have the gogogo follow da guide mentality since like i said in the OP, they dont belong in mmorpgs
Reasoning implies thinking, there is no thinking when one follows the most optimal build, the word for it is a NO BRAINER, I assume you understand what that means, it means they dont need to use their brain, therefore there is no thinking or reasoning, it is not a choice
Go ahead, you can very well force yourself through all that, you would be going against the design of the game and would be suffering for it and that is normal.
The game works against you if you dont play it for what it is.
now?
What do we see now?
Can we seriously stop with these troll posts. There have been sites and forums theory crafting damage since Vanilla.
I have played the game since BC and this has ALWAYS been the game for me. Since I started playing rpg’s back when I 9… playing ff3 for SNES, It’s always been about the numbers. That’s the exciting part.
Quit to trying to impose your idea of what the game is, or even an RPG, on everyone else.
I don’t care about min/max stuff and I do “try” to build my own but then that gets removed like my cute abomanation I can’t even glamor my ghoul into it which really pissed me off. Beside how the hell can people not cookie cut with 3 options. They need to add like 12 talent choices in each roll and not remove any because “cookie cutters” you can’t stop people from cookie cutting that will always happen as any diablo 2 player knows you can destroy cookie cutters with a unique build easily aka frogger barbarians or martial art assassins.
This thread is just like delete LFR threads, just a bunch of butthurt players that believe their way of playing is the norm when different playstyles can coexist, just useless trash.
Nobody and everybody:
Ralph: We should play how we want!
Also Ralph: Ban anyone not playing meta!
Yes that’s juste hate you prefer them to get out because you think other players ruin your game. You can play how you want the game. And people will always min/max. I don’t enjoy less rpg because I do, I just like to understand what I can do numericly. You’re not special or more right because you think you like more rpgs than me, I like them. I just like them knowing what I can do, not just swinging a broom around.
Yes you just don’t respect people using a hammer to hit a nail. They all need to use their bare hands to push the nail in. Because using a hammer is “no-brainer” choice xd
The game doesn’t work agaisn’t me, it will punish more casual players. I’ll do fine. Casuals basicly arguing to make their game worse and let them have more “noob trap”. I would prefer to not do it, but it’s not the worse if I don’t have to farm 3k+ islands.