You’re not fit to be the judge of that. People can enjoy the games how they want.
RPG moreover is more than your singular point of view.
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“What I truly want my character to be is a copy of X player’s guide”
Yet I just made this topic and passed a judgement.
And my points were quite clear, if someone only cares about “winning” rather than building and creating a character then clearly they should be playing CoD since it simply puts you into a battlefield and fight so you can “win”
mmorpgs are literally for everyone its kinda in the mmo part, just because people want to min max and push high end content doesnt mean they are playing the game wrong. This game is just a medium for any number of methods of play
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Yes and that’s just a pill of bullpoop. You go play cod if you enjoy it more. I’ll keep playing wow as long as I enjoy it more. See that was easy.
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Welcome to RPG! It’s no different than someone saying “I want to role play as Conan or Legolas or Arthas.” Those are someone else’s characters as well that they’re trying to copy.
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Incorrect - these players don’t want to brainlessly jump into content to win; they’re just more focused on the skilled side of challenging content as opposed to the more casual RP aspects of a game.
One of WoW’s best features is the ability to play at a highly challenging level - where actually playing the game well is rewarded, not just having BiS gear/talents/essences/etc.
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I would say its the MMO part of the game, the moment you put MMO alongside RPG, you willingly accept the competitive side that comes with it, so you get WoW in its current state, not that its a bad thing tbh, some people lean towards the RPG side more and enjoy the Moonguard stuff etc while others lean towards the MMO side and partake in the difficult and competitive content alongside other players that enjoy this part.
The problem is when you have players like Rälph that want to shove their outdated vision up your butt.
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I could not possibly agree with you more.
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Or the remaining few are all that bad decisions of the last year have left us with and people prefer blaming what few players wow still have than blaming the game direction.
Weird - the new Shadowlands covenants seem to go against this.
They take away all of the fun thinking, planning, and choices we have to do/make when we approach a new prog boss, or M+ with x compositon/y composition/or z composition, or arena match.
All of the potential for building and tailoring your character with magic to adjust to so many ways to play simply vanish - taking away so much player agency with it.
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Ah yes, you can just see the skill eminating from someone who gets into a game and follows a guide brainlessly without thinking.
There is a major difference between someone who understands something and does a thing, and someone who does a thing because someone told him to.
Quite major indeed.
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How did you learn to read and write? Oh someone told you. Must be bad.
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I’d also argue the competitive players shove their version down our throats when they gatekeep our not optimal builds when the content doesn’t demand it.
Now you have bad players implementing hardcore requirements making party finding significantly harder.
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Au contraire my dear, it does quite the opposite.
You simply seem to have confused yourself into thinking your character is supposed to be OPTIMAL IN EVERY SINGLE SITUATION.
You arent supposed to be optimal, that is ruining the RPG aspect of a mmorpg because the optimal build is often quite obvious therefore removing any sort of choice as “you want to do X boss, you need that build to be most optimal”.
0 thought, 0 investments, brainless “”""“choice”""""
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People want to step in more hardcore content but don’t feel like playing hardcore. Moreover, you can create your own group of people that don’t mind the way you play. It’s fine that people want to play with other people that plays the same way.
I mean that’s sports - there are training programs and guides that show you how to jump, throw a ball, what gear to use for each position, etc. - that doesn’t mean the players don’t have to pull through with skill on their end.
What the player brings after the guides and training isn’t mindless - it’s the actual fun part of the game. Making choices, adapting to various obstacles, etc.
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Thats the ignorant casual players fault, they tryhard copying stuff when they know they arent as good as competitive players, so in the end they force builds etc to you when you could be performing better with the non meta build, this is a community problem, not WoW’s problem or competitive players problem.
Don’t fool yourself, you aren’t the one figuring anything out. You read the same guide everyone else is.
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You sound like a Classic player that got lost. This isn’t the 90’s anymore.
Being able to play optimally in various situations for the sake of diversity or being able to take on challenging content is the norm across RPGs now.
Look at other successful RPG’s like FFXIV - instead of putting up barriers and restrictions, they take them down and let you play any class on a single character - and they don’t make you regrind through all the levels when you switch classes on that character the way covenants do.
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Eh… for whatever reason, FFXIV has mostly avoided the “optimal build” question. Everyone has access to every job, but you’re not really limited if you choose any particular job or don’t have any in particular. There’s also the lack of anything along the lines of talent choices for jobs (you’re free to choose which, but not tweak it), and gear is mostly stat-sticks, so that probably makes the balancing a bit easier.
A notable exception is the Blue Mage, which is explicitly kept out of (current) endgame content. The job can choose a loadout of up to 24 different spells (out of a current total of 80; and as per the FF series tradition, they’re learned from enemies), plus a few generic “role” abilities which all casters have. Any 24 spells, which can be anything from basic single target damage to crazy AoEs to completely unbalanced attacks which do stuff like “reduce health to 1” and “die in 15 seconds”. Sometimes it’s just fun to experiment with for a while and see what you can do with it.
Back to more general comments, there’s some preferred/ideal group compositions… but the majority of players don’t care all that much about them. There’s a HUGE focus on group utility there, and “greedy” jobs with low utility but higher damage output are present; all jobs are viable for all brackets of content.
But back to the previous point… the question of "what’s best?" isn’t eliminated, it just hasn’t been allowed to become domineering.