Mistweaver Top 3 Healer (pvp)

Whenever people talk about mistweaver, or what they have heard, or seen, they come to the conclusion that mistweaver is the worst healer.

They come to this conclusion due to two (2) misconceptions:

  • Mistweaver requires casting to heal (in clutch moments, no big instant healing)
  • Mistweavers are easily killed

The only grounded negative opinion is that Life Cocoon is a “fake” cd… because a 60K shield is worthless by today’s dps standards and this ability should be significantly buffed.

Today i would like to address these misconceptions.

PLEASE SKIP TO PART 1A.) i removed the toxic part of this post and just left some information derived ========================================================

Rising Sun Revival conduit.
Rising Sun Revival heals someone for ~2K over 8s, or ~6K over 8s if you hit 3 people.
Wow. What a great use of a conduit slot.

Mana Tea, over the duration of 10s, vs Lifecycles casting Env>Viv>Viv>Viv>Env equates to a ~2K mana difference… this is to mediate the idea that even in a perfect Mana Tea window, which is very unlikely, the difference is still so insignificant… so for the other 1.4mins while Mana Tea is on cd, its pretty obvious that you’ll be losing significantly more mana than that via Lifecycles.
Any argument referring to “well this is good for dampening” can refer back to this bolded text: by the time you’re at 0% mana w/ Mana Tea (/ Focused Thunder) the Lifecycles mistweaver will still be at +35% mana.

PART 1A.) ====================================================

These players will, along with many others that have no idea what they’re talking about, convincingly demoralize you from playing mistweaver because; lets reiterate the misconceptions we’re here to debunk:

  • Mistweaver requires casting to heal (in clutch moments, no big instant healing)
  • Mistweavers are easily killed

Well as for the first, mistweaver doesn’t require hard-casting to heal. You will be told, and witness, a mistweaver trying to channel soothing mist, in attempt to make it through 1 global to vivify their target, just to get kicked and lose the match in vain. “Wow, mistweaver sucks!”, you will exclaim.

Well, what if that target had Bonedust on them?
What if that target had Essence Font on them?

You now might be thinking to yourself, well that’s a lot of globals, AND you have to cast Essence Font, it will just get kicked! To this i say; well for one, bonedust brew procs pretty often through unity, and due to the Bone Marrow Hops conduit lowering the cd of Bonedust Brew, effective on proc brews, the uptime on Bonedust Brew, specifically in moments where you need it, is pretty consistent- should this be by your own hand pre-emptively or a proc.
For another, i would say that you can cast Essence Font and cancel Essence Font, while still providing the buff to 3 people (intended target), faster than peoples’ brains can react to it. I’ve stood in front of friends, who stand there waiting to kick me on Essence Font, just for me to instantly cancel-cast it; the buff comes out incredibly fast is the point i’m trying to make > optimally you should be cancel-casting ~14s before you think you’ll potentially need instant healing.
People read the first part of Upwelling talent and immediately it boggles their mind about longer casting duration “Wow, that will surely get kicked. This talent sucks!” only to miss the second part of the talent, duration of buff increased by 4s. That means w/ 2set+Upwelling and a .3s channel you can have three (3) 14s buffs up. (Note: Your alternative is getting a second charge of Thunder Focus Tea, which is almost always spent on a Vivify that is already -45% mana reduced)

Well how is any of this instant healing?

Gust of Mists = 5.5K
Essence Font = 5.5K × 2 = 11K
Resplendent Mists conduit = 30% chance to make Gust of Mists proc for 100% more healing
(5.5K × 2)~2 = 16.5-22K
+Crit
((5.5K × 2)~2)~2 = 27.5-44K

on Bonedust Brew = (5.5K × 2)2 + (7 × 2) = 36K
w/ resplendent ((5.5K × 2)~2)2 + (7 × 2) = 47-58K
+Crit
(((5.5K × 2)~2)~2)2 + (7 × 2) = 69-102K

POV you hit Renewing Mists-
That’s a lot of instant healing. That’s crazy i thought mistweaver didn’t have any!
a little bit of practice, figuring out the timings, knocking out some oldschool tendencies, you’ll be instant casting in no time.

Note: All of these extra heals apply the Bone Marrow Hops conduit, which reduces the cd of Bonedust Brew, and the extra gusts (including dusted gusts) apply the Jade Bond conduit, which lowers the cd of Chiji.

Speaking of Chiji, what was that second misconception?

  • Mistweavers are easily killed

Well, if all that instant healing wasn’t enough, if teleporting through walls while stunned wasn’t enough, if dematerialize wasn’t enough, well at least we still have Chiji. Y’know all that math you see above? Take all that, now apply it to 2 targets, put it on every global for 24s, useable through silence/kick, and add +40% on all of it from instant cast free Enveloping Mists, then throw in a half-effective Enveloping Mists just like Yu’lon. (heals through shadowy duel btw)
If Chiji is up, no one can die.

That’s a little bit of an exaggeration, but if you’re like stunned, you have 30% wall or you can teleport (or both), you got instant healing, and when you’re not stunned you heal everyone to full hp every global. The real trick with Chiji is learning when/how to use it. You say “play chiji” to one of the examples above, they’re going to scoff, and when they play it they’re going to run in like its Way of the Crane from legion cause that’s all they know. I generally use Chiji pretty defensively, when the enemy team is trying to keep pressure up; there is just nothing they can do into Chiji without heavy cc on you- it can heal through ret wings, war banners, dk grippy hands, its incredible in the right hands. Not to mention the whole time you’re basically not spending mana, you’re lowering the cd on Chiji through Jade Bonds conduit, and increasing the chance to proc Bonedust Brew through SCK/etc hitting people.
If you ever run Jade serpent statue, the thing that heals on and off in LoS/range for 1K/hps, thinking that it is providing anything to the match, you are diluted. You’re trading the absolute biggest mistweaver cd in the game, for a passive heal that will lead to your death, your teammates death, anytime, when enemy cds are up, down, dots are ticking on you, anywhere, the statue provides absolutely no value. Deselect it and don’t reselect it for the rest of the expansion.

Wow, look at that. You’ve reached the end! Congratulations. Now you know that mistweaver, not only has the highest healing throughput in the game, the best mana efficiency in the game (even while using Essence Font), a disarm, the ability to port traps/cc/stuns, passive wall, can stop tranquility/smokebomb, dispel sepsis, massive instant healing, and is incredibly hard to kill, you can go live your mistweaver dreams!

Mistweaver isn’t bad, the people who “play it” are.

PLEASE READ SOME OF THE THREAD BEFORE REPLYING BASED ON THIS INITIAL POST.

Incase it wasn’t obvious, here is the new build:

Talents:

  • Mist Wrap
  • Chi Torpedo (Tiger’s Lust as needed)
  • Lifecycles
  • Ring of Peace (Song of Chiji as needed)
  • Diffuse Magic (Healing Elixir ONLY if you’re fighting 2 physical)
  • Invoke Chi-ji, the Red Crane
  • Upwelling

Honor Talents vary but generally Peaceweaver, Eminence, then trade Chrysalis out as needed Dematerialize, Grapple, Zen Focus Tea.

Conduits:

  • Bone marrow Hops
  • Fortifying Ingredients
  • Jade Bond
  • Lingering Numbness (Swift Transference, preference)
  • Resplendent Mist
  • Harm Denial

You’re welcome.

3 Likes

Good job on the effort of the post, but disrespecting R1’s and blizzcon champion together with the entire MW pvp player base?

Calm down and the play the spec the way you want to play it

5 Likes

So many words AND condescending. You can tell this guy has to have an insane arena rating. I’m not even going to look. Move over Cejay, mystical, rick, khon, and picklefart… this guy is on the come up.

5 Likes

Incase anyone missed this section, I have quoted it for reference.

Cj is the r1 mw referred to in this post. I was going to a make of video compilation of him losing to aff/ww/hpriest with mlchi 10x in a row because he’s playing a bad build and playing it poorly, but decided to just make a forums post instead. (i have 1 match recorded but the other 9 are still up on VOD)
As for mystical, i believe he is not so far lost in his ego to see that maybe the builds he plays aren’t the best; open to ideas at the very least. You can see this through his transition from venthyr to necrolord, his lack of revival conduit, he’s running lifecycles, he adapted to using BM trinket to buff his Life Cocoon absorb, and he often takes Diffuse Magic. That is why i did not include him in this post.

There was also an AWC (champion, i think) that didn’t even know Essence Font made your mastery proc twice. I didn’t include him in the post as, he clearly doesn’t play mw, has strong opinions on its place, much like the others, runs a bad build, but was open to the idea, and was very intrigued by Essence Font even in his first match ever using it. That is why he was not included in this post. (i recorded this beautiful moment)

The r1 mw EU, also runs dematerialize, ahead of the curve, with no revival conduit, and when i said “mw has massive instant healing” i actually have a screenshot of him saying “explain to me i dontknow”… which is already more progress than the examples i listed.

Not including Woez because he’s a homie and if i told him i’m sure he’d go for it; but change is hard for everyone at first.

It’s weird how so far you’ve managed to talk around the biggest in elephant in the room, your cr.

Every single MW referenced or implied that you’ve talked down to is higher rated than you… and not just by a little. If these other MWs are “diluted,” and playing so sub optimally and still outpacing and outperforming you by echelons… what exactly does that say about you and your rambling?

1 Like

please stop bringing the topic to cr. my post isn’t about cr. i tried everything in my power to guide a depraved linear brain from this conundrum, pre-emptively anticipating and diffusing this irrelevant point, so that we could focus on the main points of the post.
this is clearly not my first account. clearly didn’t gain all this information, didn’t newly pull up the game and just decided to make a post with a bunch of paper information untested, while magically knowing how to play, magically found these players, know the history of mw monk, all this in like two months… its baffling that you could think this.
As for “playing so sub optimally” ; i think their mentality is to lose, then blame it on mistweaver, and infect the community in a hysteria of “mw is bad” that goes unchallenged because of players like you. if you’d like to see a clip referred to above, in a characteristic that even you will describe as sub optimal, despite being lower cr, feel free to post your discord####, i’ll send it over.
if your reply to this is with anything other than your discord#### know that you are truly lost.

if you don’t have anything of actual relevance, regarding the build, to discuss- please refrain from returning to the topic. i won’t be further degrading my thread w/ it.

2 Likes

Your CR is relevant because you’re making posts and vomiting information contrary to MWs higher than you. If it was working, it would be working for you… and it obviously isn’t. What is working… is what they are doing. What is not working… is what you are doing.

lmao. Yea man. CJ playing 3x MW monks at or above 2.8 is playing to lose. This is easily the most “diluted” take. I’m dumbfounded. /thread I guess.

6 Likes

While I think your takes are interesting, I have to agree with clapity, there have been people on this forum that have suggested sub optimal M+ builds in the past but were low io but swore it was as good as the meta builds for m+, you can make any post you want but your exp is always gonna come into question. Getting glad or higher is probably the only way to to prove your point that the build you made can be good or better even. I might just try chi ji myself though, def might be more interesting then JSS in some games.

3 Likes

Well no the thread doesn’t discuss ratings, it’s discussing players who are assumably at the multi r1 level. World class players. Beyond ratings if you will.

If you’re going to criticize players competing at that level, it’s natural to assume others will look at your past performance. That’s not a bad or wrong thing to do. Part of research (much less disseminating it’s conclusions) is checking and validating sources to be reliable.

Everything you said here might be true, and it might not be. As someone who hasn’t pvp’d seriously in a decade (and never as mw), I have no personal experience from which to draw comparisons. So I would have to err on the side of whoever is performing at a significantly higher level.

For example, someone saying something controversial about balance with respect to raiding is one thing. Another would be if that same person was aggressively denigrating RWF players spec knowledge and opinions, yet was only 7/10 heroic themselves. It just doesn’t check out.

Not saying anything about you being right or wrong, but if you want to make claims that strongly go against the grain, it’s not unreasonable for others to check your rating.

As a real life example, you can’t really get into a phd program with only a really strong personal statement. You need a high gpa, strong test scores, research experience etc. Otherwise admissions taking you on would be based solely on your self-confidence and ability to persuade

You have to forgive people for being hesitant to take you at your word here.

4 Likes

I’ve been glad since legion s3 minus s1/s2 BFA and s2 SL (didn’t play). You should try out the build! Chiji is really fun aswell once you figure it out!

Ya, i’ve noticed that m+/raid also does a really good job at having very optimized builds. In the past when i had to do m+, i obviously would look into builds myself, and always found myself understanding why we have the builds we do in pve. Very well crafted.

When i originally was testing/making this build (which only got more powerful w/ the introduction of unity), i had many similar discussions with my teammates (that would go on collectively for hours), then when essentially anonymous having to explain it to random people with similar cr-above-all-mindset; i think i just got to my limit when writing this post so tried to pre-emptively punish those who would look to do it again. A mistake maybe, but without which still brings the same diluted conversation just under the guise that i didn’t expect it.

That which can be insisted without proof, can be dismissed without proof.

“This build is good.” -TrustMeBro

6 Likes

Sometimes lower rated players can have great ideas but lack the experience or execution to make them work. I don’t think it’s fair to discredit them just because of their CR. It’s also possible for higher rated players to not experiment with different builds because they get in kind of a high rated echo chamber.

2 Likes

Did you know, that in BFA the azerite power Breath of the Dying went unused for 4 weeks after its release?; before a viewer donated to pikaboo suggesting that he test it out, and within 2 matches of using it pikaboo, for the next week, would be explaining what the azerite power is and what it does constantly to people asking him because it was so good. Then suddenly the world was flooded with people swapping off Ancient Flame to the minor slot and Breath of the Dying as major.

4 Likes

Unnecessary to bash the guy. Would be a good conversation if you could explain the optimal build into aff/ww/hpriest

I would just be reiterating everything from my original post.
Diffuse Magic for Mindgames->MD because dispelling with UA is certain death in that scenario; and your Revival will have already been traded for Darksoul.
Chiji so you don’t have to trinket and run into the middle of the map for peels on the first bonedust->images->legsweep of the game… also makes it difficult for the WW to connect since you can’t be rooted/slowed.

I’ve never run chiji in the arena, but can you cast it if interrupted?

uhhh, you cannot summon chiji if you are already in a kick; no. if chiji is already summoned and you get kicked/silenced you can use SCK to heal w/ chiji tho… if that’s what you mean.

Nope just meant if you can summon while kicked, but thanks. I tried it out in solo Q last night and it worked really well, but I’ll see what happens in proper ranked arena.

The only other real conduit option is Nourishing Chi, which to be honest is decent but also not some insane conduit either.

Mana tea is used over lifecycles because if you’re using your focused thunder tea charges correctly you are getting free vivify casts anyway. During big burst windows you can instant top with a TFT enveloping mist and a free vivify, there’s no point in using lifecycles as it is redundant with the focused thunder talent.

Jade Serpent statue heals ticks for 1k, can crit, is affected by Enveloping, lasts 7.7 seconds after you stop channeling soothing and is free, reliable, passive healing through the entire arena match that is usually around 10%+ healing overall in every match. If you know cc is coming and can’t stop it and get an EM and channel soothing the statue will continue to heal them.

When you take chi-ji you have to subject yourself to a hard swap/cc spam because you have to use your melee attacks. It replaces Invoke Yu’lon, the Jade Serpent which is already a decent and safe 3 minute cooldown that does not make you go into melee range or position very poorly. Why would you replace that for a risky, not even very good talent. With jade serpent, using TFT correctly and positioning you shouldn’t ever have to go into melee range and use RSK or anything unless you want to go for a risky ToD.

Essence font in pvp is an absolute noob trap. It is 3600 mana for something that ticks for 1500 initially and then like maybe 200 a tick hot. If you are keeping up your renewing mists, and channel soothing with the jade statue talent and enveloping mists will keep up literally everyone for less mana over wasting 3600 mana on an easy to kick useless ability. If I ever see anyone in the arena use essence font I know they are bad and we win.

Your math is useless because the way to heal w/ MW is to have renewing, Zen focus if you need to, soothing, TFT, EM (TFT makes em heal instant 8k+ with mastery and crit), VIV (Free because TFT) and then stop soothing unless they don’t have kicks and you will instantly top anyone on your team and continue to heal for 7.7s after you stop soothing because of jade. Zen focus tea timings and good para/leg sweeps and your dps respecting the cooldowns of the enemy means you should not be standing there soothing spamming vivifies and EM rotations for lifecycles, which again is a dumb talent because TFT gives free mana cost vivifies.

I believe that you play at a low mmr/rating where positioning doesn’t matter and your teammates don’t respect cooldowns, and from that I can see where some of your points come from. The top MWs right now are playing Mage/Lock and are a dampen comp. They want to sit back and win with high mana and no risky plays, chi-ji is risky and not worth as a 3 minute cooldown when it replaces a safe option. Lifecycles, again, is redundant to good TFT usage with Focused Thunder talent. Jade serpent statue is free RELIABLE healing when you stop soothing throughout the entire match. Essence font is a huge waste of mana and doesn’t heal for literally anything in a bursty meta.

If I missed anything or if I need to clarify anything LMK.

2 Likes

Jade Bond conduit.

Even if you’re using TFT on cd and Mana Tea on cd you will be saving less mana than someone with Lifecycles, by a long shot. We could do the math through the entire 1.5min duration. What is redundant is the TFT talent and Mana Tea, not Lifecycles.

Jade Serpent Statue won’t heal your teammate through anything. When you EM someone pre-cc, the Jade Serpent Statue isn’t what is keeping them up, its the gust of mist + 20K healing from EM. It’s the pre-cocoon. It’s their defensives. The statue does absolutely nothing but stat-pad. Every scenario where you will die, you will still die, and every scenario where you should not die, you will still die with Jade Serpent Statue.

As for Chiji, you see, this is the problem with players who have never played it. They form such a narrow sited opinion on Chiji, usually as an aggressive 3min cd, which is how you would use it, yes it would be terrible. but as i’ve explained many times, chiji is a defensive cd, you have to learn how to play it. (not to mention w/ jade bond conduit and the use of EF + bonedust uptimes, Chiji is much closer to a sub 2min cd) you’re not popping chiji, and running into the enemy team melee range. (not to mention melee range is a lot less scary when every global is like a 40K heal). you should test it out, die with it, assume you’re playing it wrong, then keep testing it, until that moment where you use it correctly hits you, and you finally understand how incredible chiji is.

Waste 3600 mana to instant cast anyone to full hp w/ renewing mists*
Waste 3600 mana to make Chiji the most powerful healing cd available to mw*
Waste 3600 mana to survive in those moments where you can’t avoid the kick, the most common reason mw loses*
Waste 3600 mana to guarantee whatever is happening to your teammate, if you get any heal off, they won’t die. That’s not something you can promise without EF.

People see the mana cost and don’t realize that mw mana is the best mana in the game. You can afford to use EF, properly, not just spamming it, and you’ll still be at 80-90% by the time your enemy is in the 40%s.

Jade Serpent Statue, once again, provides nothing but a statpad. I’m not going to go into the details of every matchup, review all your mw games to show you the statue does absolutely nothing, i’m not going to review all your losses to find out how many games you could’ve won if you played a better build, properly, you just gotta try it yourself instead of blaming mw when you lose. Imagine if instead of losing that game at 90% mana, you hit EF, sparked a chain of reactions, and everyone became unkillable.

…hey look, another mistweaver who thinks you have to cast to heal. its crazy how most typically people die w/ mistweavers because the mistweaver gets kicked, or “can’t do anything more”, you should really tell everyone about that sick Zen Tea strat. I’m not saying you spam anything, I’m saying playing a normal match, correctly, you will get more value from Lifecycles than Mana Tea + TFT talent, please i implore you to go test it, track your mana, every Lifecycles game you will spend significantly less mana- bar comp differences.
If mw works so well with the build you’re running, yet is considered the worst healer, (so clearly the build ain’t working that well) imagine how well it would work with the build you’re not running that is extraordinarily better.

ALSO i feel the need to inform you that EF also doubles your gust of mists, this is your mastery. YOU SAID THIS IS WHAT EF DOES. YOU KIND OF MISSED OUT ON THE MOST CRUTIAL PART OF EF IN YOUR EXPLAINATION THERE. I REPEAT, DOUBLE GUST. Which is effected by Resplendent Mists, every part of Bonedust, crits, etc.

I felt the need to inform you of that because EF is the only thing that allows you to reliably heal in this bursty meta outside of cds… don’t feel bad if you did not know this, the AWC cup 1(?) champion (& the multi r1 eu player) also didn’t know EF provided double mastery proc :slight_smile:

Please send me your discord#### i’ll show you some clips of the r1 mw and how well the current build is working in mlchi.

If i missed anything, lmk.