With the talent trees coming back and from what ive been able to gather you pick between two play styles (probably raid and Mythic+/PvP).
Revival is great, heals a bunch. Can cause problems because of the dispel but dispel isnt really a problem outside of certain fights. Just dont Revival right. The 9.0.5 or 9.1 (i cant remember) change that made it so Gusts of mists now procs Revival bonus healing is fantastic. Essence font before Revival for double heals or more. understandable change.
What i dont like tho is the oh crap button mechanic of it.
Tranq and Hymn both have ramp but once its procc’d cause increased healing higher and higher. GREAT for those moments you need burst healing or pulse healing.
Salv is fantastic, massive heal, massive heal over time. 12 minute timer that really comes down to about 3-4 minutes in a priests rotation (honestly just change it to be a set number and be done with it)
Paladins have a unique CD based on what aura they are running, which is fantastic for class identity. Im sure we will see some Aura of Healing or something coming back so it just becomes a pulse of some kind.
Shamans are just the batman of the healing world, Totems, aoe health exchange. a pre determined totem that will splash massive heals to people.
As you can see outside of paladin , which will probably be getting some kinda massive cd from days of old, majority of the healing specs have a really good burst healing CD that can either be influenced after its cast (either doing its self or pulses after finished casting) or just flat burst healing/mitigation.
What im trying to imply is that Monk healers while they have stuff like chi ji for fistweaving play style and Yu’lon for mistweaving. Revival has a set up to use. of which its initial heal at 269 ilvl is 7.3k. This can be influenced by gusts of mists.
Why not make Revival a mini cooldown that isnt influenced by Gusts of mists, Be available to both fist and mist side of the talent tree and put in a new mistweaver influenced specific skill on what ever side of the tree that ends up being called “Chi Bomb”.
The way i would see it is one of Three ways:
Place a Sphere of Chi above a target member (even enemies if you want) that absorbs over healing. At ANY time you can reactivate it to make the chi bomb explode for bulk healing.
Place a chi bomb above some ones head, the duration is set to 5-6seconds, it then can be reactivated early or expire exploding healing across the raid. After detonation chi Sphere existence provides a medium Heal over time for the total number of seconds the sphere was active for.
While channeling soothing mists you can activate a Chi Bomb which fires off a chi wave to every target in the raid. Now Chi wave is pretty powerful, this version id say Lesser Chi waves which doesnt attack enemies but bounces healing 3-4 times between everyone. Real smart healer aspect spell.
Why do you define Revival as an oh crap button? It is a very strong raid cooldown that should be planned. If you are not planning it then its not the buttons fault but rather the players.
This kills off a core part of the priest kit if you do this. A part of the kit is all about cycling holy words and getting CDR on said holy words. This also is increased massively by their current tierset which means they clearly enjoy the design of holy words.
Tranq and Divine Hymn really are not burst healing spells though… They do their healing spread out over duration which directly means its not burst healing.
Kind of weird… Since its only a cooldown when devotion aura is selected and actually pointless if any other Aura is selected.
I still don’t agree with this. The only specs I see having BURST healing is Mistweaver with revival and disc priest with ramps. All other specs have lots of cooldowns that aren’t burst. In all reality Tranq, Hymn, HTT are just strong hots in all reality…
Please don’t do this. This would make mastery far worse than it already is. Lets not kill off a stat.
This requires a lot of setup. You’d have to use it so far before damage goes out that the player has time to build it up with overhealing. Which unless you’re getting innervates and PI you won’t be able to charge it up enough to make it a cooldown worth of healing.
It really sounds like you want a hot as a cooldown.
I don’t think anyone has ever said this line before… But if this plans to be a cooldown then even with current chi-wave it would be terrible. With all the current numbers 20 current chi-waves would hit for a total of 3.5k sp if it bounces 4 times. A current revival with 0 mastery rating (so just the default 33.6% mastery) would hit for 6332 sp which that doesn’t include things like Essence Font.
Also if we are talking about a spell that bounces and is a truly smart heal then you’d probably run into the issue where most of them will bounce to the same target producing basically a LoH for each bounce… so 4 people get full hp rest get nothing
stuff happens, 7.9k is not a strong raid cooldown when tranq heals for 24k over the course of like 6seconds after all the extra applied healing goes off, same with Hymn.
7.9k x 2 (lets say you are running 350% mastery in raid, which you shouldnt) is still only 15.8k (before crits)… does it improve healing already running on the target, no, does it increase your healing output on future spells, no.
holy words are insane, especially with 4piece, yes its a core part but no, it shouldnt be rewarded with a cooldown with a 12minute base timer that does 3 different things, large heal, renew, and prayer of mending which if you are talented for renew on prayer to refresh all renews eventually. Base game mechanic and smart thing would be to just make it a 4minute CD and lower the healing output. Why force heavy work for it when its going to happen regardless of what you do? bad game design.
Tranq and Hymn both apply a healing increase and their first pulse is their weakest with the strongest pulse being at the end of teh cast and lasting 6seconds afterwards increasing all healing the druid or priest does. Massive burst healing from it, up to 24k in a druids case and ive seen 52k aoe burst from hymn on a single priest from a single cast followed by a holy word with 4piece. This makes your opinion about this wrong.
the only aura they will run is a damage reduction, basically negating MASSIVE raid wide damage during encounters. You put Devotion aura against Revival with a 350% gusts of mists running on it, devotion aura will do more work.
if you think any other spec in the game is outplayed by revival, you are wrong, Priest has mass dispel built in, 7.9k on a 269 revival vs my holy priest 270 Hymn 8.4 + 8seconds of ramping healing + 6seconds of extended healing.
Shaman also out plays with with spirit link totem. You ask any shaman what healing CD is their most valuable its spirit link or cloud burst or in most situations both. Cloud burst takes ALL the healing into account the shaman does, so you can double stack it with a healing tide and healing stream and bam, massive heals on demand for 20seconds.
mastery is already a dead stat outside of M+, you shouldnt be stacking it to any extreme in raiding content.
no number was discussed, it could default to a number like revival quantity and ramp up over time.
revival is currently already a hot as a cooldown. Conduit applies a heal over time for the amount healed, what it doesnt do is increase healing of any sorts.
have you ever looked at chi waves actual healing output? its about 8k single target. if you are trying to judge it in a raid scenario just imagine about 10-20 of them going off healing for about 12k each over their duration. 20 x 12 = 140k, hence raid cooldown… in a 20man scenario the best you will get out of a single revival is roughly 125k with gusts running att 350% , again, dont do that
NOT to mention smart heals are kinda the monks thing. they rely on it and should be playing around its mechanic, put renewing on full health targets in times of no healing so they jump to some one else and you dont cancel out old renewings running. Chi Wave can prioritize specific targets which it currently does. Revival just gives flat healing and conduit small HoT.
HST and CBT both can’t be taken they share a slot, but HST on my Shaman is like 1k every 1.7 seconds. Even with all the bonuses you get for dropping both totems (conduits for 30% Surge/Wave/Riptide after CBT and 100% rain after HT) you are taking 10-20 seconds of healing that requires constant damage output and comparing it to Revival which is 1 global, and instant. I’m not sure what the goal of this is for comparing the needs of Fistweaving vs. Mistweaving.
Lets reduce this down to spell power numbers so can abstractly talk about it.
Revival hits a single target for 283% spell power plus 1 hit of mastery which at 0 rating is 33.6. We will also assume that you casted Essence font before your revival meaning 65% (13 targets in a 20 player raid) have the HoT. This means on average the addition from gust of mist will be 33.6 * 1.65 or 55.44% spell power. This total ups to 338.44% spell power.
If we look at Tranquility we can see that it does 295% spell power over 8 seconds while also placing a stacking hot on the target which this hot ticks for 6.88% spell power for 8 seconds with the interval of 2 seconds between ticks. To make life a little easier we are gonna assume 4 ticks at 5 stacks as our hot healing meaning we’d get 34% more spell power from this hot overall. We will also assume you have 2 stacks of mastery applied to the target for the direct and indirect Tranquility healing which assuming no mastery again would mean 34 * 1.08 + 295 * 1.08 = 355.32% spell power over 8 seconds (hasted)
The hot will get extra ticks while the Tranquility channel will just be reduced in time (no extra ticks or healing).
These numbers are decently similar and in all reality with more stacks of mastery (more hots out) and stacking more mastery Tranquility will pull ahead in total HPS but we have to remember that Tranquility also has a much higher opportunity cost than Revival. Getting a revival off is a simple 2 button setup of Essence Font into revival which you can move the whole time this happens while Tranquility is an 8 second channel that you can’t move during.
This also ignores the current systems at play that are not mentioned such as conduits, legendaries, covenants, soul binds. I know the topic of the post was Dragon Flight’s talent tree but without the specifics from it its very hard to compare the two spells.
In all reality the only reason Holy Word: Salvation gets to such a low cooldown is purely due to the 4set. You can go look historically and see that before this tier it was still a very long cooldown. Which the ability to reduce Holy Word: Salvation to lower CD is the whole reason Holy Priest is good right now in all reality. The reason the talent is good is because it is a large heal also. Its design to be a use once maybe twice a raid but during that window your raid is nearly immortals. The issue keeps coming back to the tierset not the actual mechanics or ability.
I disagree again. One major thing that is being HIGHLY ignored is the fact it takes that long to do the healing. You’re talking about an 8 second duration spell then comparing it to a spell that is 1 GCD. You are naturally going to have a difference or the 8 second spell isn’t going to be worth it at all. But back to the point of burst healing. Would you consider healing over 8 seconds burst? What if we increased this window to 10-15 to include usage of their healing buff spells? What if we then compare this to the 1.5 second window of revivals healing?
So this brings up a few interesting points. Are we comparing passive devotion aura and Aura Mastery to Revival? Since that wouldn’t be a fair comparison as you’re talking about a passive and an active against a single active. Not to mention that passive Devotion Aura also is limited to one per raid so right when you introduce another paladin to raid their EHPS from Devotion Aura is massively reduced. We actually have tools right now to compare how much EHPS comes from the active Aura Mastery and the passive Devotion Aura and typically the EHPS heavily comes from the passive rather than the active. We have to remember that Aura Mastery itself is only a 12% damage reduction meaning to even equal a 8k hit you’d have to take 66k damage during its window. There are 100% bosses where this is possible cough lords of dread cough but it is not common for bosses to actually hit that hard. We also have to remember that as time goes the power of revival increases in a tier while the power of Devotion Aura remains the same. At the start of the tier Devotion Aura is at full power since its fully based on damage taken and gaining iLvL doesn’t decrease damage taken (unless people stack vers which then its a negative for devotion aura) but does increase intellect thus increasing revival.
I also do not know why you keep picking 350% as the required mastery to double revival. Our revival hits for 283% and if we add Essence Font into the mix we increase mastery value by 65% on average meaning we’d need 283 / 1.65 = 171% mastery or roughly 1145 mastery rating assuming we don’t have Resplendent Mists (which would reduce this by a future 30+%) and that we don’t get any Critical Strikes.
Priests Mass Dispel doesn’t have healing tied to it. They share similar aspect but they are not the same. Not to mention Revival also dispels more types of things than Mass Dispel.
This is still comparing 1 gcd vs 24 seconds of healing. The fight will never be fair when you compare 1 gcd to 16 gcds. Time investment and HPCT are important.
This is a highly overrated cooldown in my honest opinion. Yes it has very strong niches when life sharing is useful, which is when damage isn’t being evenly disturbed to the raid, but when its outside of its niche its a 10% DR that requires your raid to stack to get 100% value on it. You can argue that due to life share overhealing is reduced which is fair but isn’t a 3 minute cooldown if you ask me.
Healing Tide Totem unironically does less healing than Revival.
CloudBurst Totem replaces Healing Stream totem so you can’t stack them together.
Cloudburst totem is literally a burst so you don’t have any large heals until you burst it. So its a 15 second build up into a large burst of healing (can be activated early if desired). Also Cloudburst Totem both prorates the healing collects (only 30% of healing done is added to it) and only collects effective healing not overhealing.
Oh I know. Trust me that I know. But the reason its bad is due to Refreshing Jade Wind and Fallen Order which I assume one of those cough Fallen Order cough will not make it to Dragon Flight as it doesn’t fight the Mistweaver Monk Theme plus its been problematic. But before the rise of RJW and Fallen Order in 9.1 mastery was actually competing against Crit and Vers very nicely in raid for an HPS stat. There were even some logs where Mastery was your best HPS stat. If we get the new talent tree and you get to have Chi-ji and Refreshing Jade Wind with no alterations to their functionality mastery is going to go up in value a fair bit as Chi-ji gives you enough mana wiggle room to actually cast Vivify again in raid.
If you add a base value to this then people will most likely only use it for its base value… unless you put a massive ratio on the overhealing absorption which then you’re pushing people to have bad habits which I don’t believe is something that should be added to the core aspect of healing.
The hot Aspect of revival is very secondary and insanely minor. If it didn’t exist revival would remain nearly the same power as it is currently. We have to remember that the Gust of Mists procs from revival don’t feed into that conduit and since the hot is over 10 seconds after the cooldown is pressed a bit of it is going to go into overhealing.
I have. Its very, very underwhelming. It does 42% AP (which is 43.68% SP) 4 times as it has to bounce from mob to ally. Meaning its 43.68 * 4 = 174.72% SP. This is still less than revivals 283% SP direct hit not even including the additional Gust of Mists hits or Essence Font Hots buff. I’m also not certain about your revival numbers. You can see in logs right now Mistweavers are getting over 200k healing per revival without including the Gust of Mist procs. I’m not pulling random numbers out of the blue. I’m directly looking up the spell power coefficients, doing math with them, and cross comparing with both in game data and logged data to verify the results.
I’m very confused at this statement… Since the start of legion Mistweavers haven’t had a truly smart heal. Essence font is random injured target that hasn’t been hit in the current set of 6 bolts, Renewing Mist is jump to random injured target, Refreshing Jade Window is just random 6 hurt targets, Ancient Teachings Of the Monastery is random injured target, Chi-ji is random injured target, Chi-wave is also currently a random injured target heal. Nothing in the last 6 years no spell in the Mistweaver kit has been a truly smart heal. Blizzard has moved away from these in their design goals.
This might also be a terminology difference. In the greater TC community a smart heal is one that targets the lowest HP target while a semi-smart heal is one that priority any injured person equally.
Mistweaver hasn’t had smart healing in the last 6 years.
I think revival is fine the way it is.
Trying to dampen what it is by saying 7.9K heal is a little misleading.
When you hit revival, everyone goes to 100% hp, from a +7.9K heal? no…
The gusts proc w/ revival, which give it an interaction with essence font. (mine actually heals for closer to 10K)
So lets say, 10K revival + 2(5.5K) gusts = 21K*
resplendent procs, 26-31K…
+crits (please don’t make me do crit math)
Also, if you were necro for whatever reason(i play necro), now we’re looking at
10K revival + 2(5.5K) gusts + 2(7) bonedust addition + 2(5K) bonedusted gusts + 8K bonedusted revival … that’s like, 53K.
30% chance per gust to resplendent mist, add another 10-20K, that’s like 63-73K…
+crit we’re looking at → a lot of overhealing
but usually your raid will coordinate when to use revival, so you don’t really need it to be too insane. its just covering a mechanic for free.
the smart heal in your tool kit is renewing mists. the way renewing mists works it will target the lowest health target within its range, it jumps to that target, upon landing if there is another renewing already there (fresh one) it will auto jump the low one off to the next target.
Upon landing on the target you are suppose to use it as a target for your vivify. This is why you bounce your vivify off the targets that dont need massive healing because the targets with renewing mists should be the ones with the lowest health in the group and vivify heals the target AND the renewing mists targets (i think the most you can actively get is 5-6 with rising mists). If you are healing the target of your renewing mists you are healing 1 less person. Hence, smart heals helping with the smart heals play style
lets clarify that necro is also an RNG chance at proccing the bonus as some times it just wont happen. 50% chance to be exact. Ontop of that Necro cant crit.
Resplendent is also an RNG chance, 30%.
Due to conduit limiting you either get the bonedust brew increase, the Chi-ji reduction, the revival = hot, or the resplendent mists.
At the current time in necro lord bonedust increase chi-ji and resplendent is the highest performing for necrolord but for the sake of the arguement ill say you replace chi-ji reduction w0ith revival.
Scenario1:
With 100% crit chance, 100% chance at resplendent and 100% at bonedust you get:
Now lets remove 50% of the bonedust brew and 40% of the crit and turn resplendent down to 30% chance(ill just remove one cos single target and i dont feel like doing the % math which will honestly be about 900 diff total).
7.9k revival + 1.6kgusts, + 3.2k gusts 2(crit) 3.2k resplendent(crit) +6k bone dust (cant Crit). 188 x 10 (Revival hot) + 130.6 x 5(Bone dust)
Suddenly you are looking at a 24.4k heal.
Now i’ve never personally seen the revival hot crit. id love to see some logs of some ones critting but as far as i can tell it just cant crit. It does show a higher value based on the Revival crit tho.
Just some quick math since everyone should be taking chi-ji and the chi-ji conduit in SoFO you remove the hot and bonedust revival hot aspect making the following scenarios:
This leaves it at 21.9k which brings it back into line with Druid shaman priest and paladin CD levels.
Next you have to look at inital set up time, Essence font is a 4second cast for full duration. IF you are caught in the middle of it when the CD is needed you need to decide if you finish and hit all 6 targets or snap it and use the button.
Now regarding essence font first it actually hits everyone in the raid , up to 6 per second. Lets say you channel for the full duration thats 24 targets, you channel for 2seconds and need to snap the cooldown that’s 12. in a 10man scenario its fine to snap it at 2 cos the essence font heal isnt what makes essence font so powerful its the gusts reaction.
the difference between 4seconds and 2seconds results in a 50% change in 20man raiding. so remove one of the gusts of mists from 50% of the raid. ill use scenario 2 for this since its the more realistic one. BUT ill leave it on crit cos people would be upset if i didnt.
NOW lets say bonedust doesnt happen at all in this scenario which is a 50/50 chance of it happening (much higher then 30% of resplendent)
11.1k Suddenly this is your oh crap moment.
Revival its self doesnt heal much, its all the tooltips surrounding it that increase its healing. Majority of these tooltips are considered RNG 30%, 50% and so on. 11.1k is an abysmally low number vs other healers who heal 16-24k with theirs.
This is just wrong. Renewing Mist does not target the lowest HP player in range. If the spell overheals at all it jumps to a RANDOM hurt target within 20 yards. You can easily test this in a dungeon group or in raid or by looking at logs.
You can only peak at 6 renewing mists for around 4-5 seconds and then if skilled can maintain 4-5 Renewing Mists the rest of the fight assuming no downtime and Thunder Focus Tea used on Rising Sun Kick.
While yes you’re healing less people you are doing the same total amount of healing so its a trade off condensed HPS vs spread HPS. The only wrong way to cast vivify is by not healing the person who needs the most healing
The Bonedust Brew Gust Of Mist is a 100% hit chance. There is no RNG tied to it. There is RNG tied to the duplication effect yes but you can average that out by just doing amount * .5
But it works with crit values so its effectively criting.
IE
Vivify normally hits for 100 meaning Bonedust Brew will hit for 40
Vivify crits for 200 meaning Bonedust Brew will hit for 80
You can also factor this into math by multiplying the probably and the boost amount so if its a 30% chance to boost Gust of Mist by 100% then its a 30% boost to Gust of Mist.
Its also widely accepted that unless you’re using the CDR from Jade Bond then its a terrible conduit in raid likewise Rising Sun Revival is a terrible conduit in Mythic Plus easily trimming you down to 3 conduits which depending on soulbind is fine.
I don’t care to check your math but I’ll convert it to spell power coefficients so gear doesn’t matter
283% SP (revival) + (Mastery % * 2 (Resplendent Mist) * 2(Essence Font Hot) + (Mastery % + 42 * 1.04) * 2 (Resplendent Mist) = Your revival direct healing pre crit
Your Revival Direct Healing * .72 = Bonedust Brew Duplication Effect
283% * 2 * .25 = Rising Sun Revival
If we assume you have 50% mastery due to not perfect gear then we get
283 + 50 * 2 * 2 + 93.68 * 2 = 670.36 Spell Power from revival itself
670.36 * (1 * 2) = 1340.72 Spell Power when everything crits
1340.72 * .72 = 965.3184 Spell Power from Bonedust Brew duplication
283 * (1 * 2) * .25 = 141.5 Spell power from Rising Sun Revival
This totals up to 1340.72 + 965.3184 + 141.5 = 2447.5384 Spell Power
Which we also have to remember that this number scales directly with vers so if you have 10% vers that is an extra 240 Spell Power.
Notes:
Rising Sun Revival can’t crit as its based directly on Revival’s healing but if Revival Crits then it effectively crits 100% of the time
42 * 1.04 is converting AP to SP ratios
SP of Gust of Mist is just your mastery %
Bonedust Brew Gust of Mist is your mastery plus 42 AP.
Bonedust Brew duplication cannot crit
Bonedust Brew Gust of Mist can crit
We assume Bone Marrow Hops is Max rank thus increasing the 40% conversion to 72% ( .4 * 1.8)
The reason we do 1 * 2 in the crit calculations is so you can easily change the 1 to whatever your crit is to find the real value. No need make you redo math
This is straight wrong. Its a 3 second hasted channel. This means at 0 haste its a 3 second channel and at 20% haste its a 3 / 1.2 = 2.5 second channel.
A general rule of thumb for Essence Font is the channel is always 2 GCDs long UNLESS you’re over 100% haste or below 0% haste. Both of those are very rare unless you’re proactively trying to get there.
This is a player issue not a Too much setup issue. You should be planning your cooldown and watching timers. If you don’t do that then any other spec like Restoration Druid and Discipline Priest are gonna have bigger learning curve issues than Mistweaver Monk.
Also Essence Font shoots out 18 total bolts over its 3 second duration with an average of 12-13 unique targets hit. This does not mean you lose 5-6 bolts but rather they hit people who have already been hit.
This is only with Upwelling. A talent that is not recommended and HIGHLY outclassed by Rising Mist.
Its 6 targets per second of channel meaning 6 * 6 = 36 total targets not 24.
In a Raid situation you have 2 parameters to determine Essence Font’s Value.
Am I setting up for Revival? If Yes then Gust of Mist hits are the biggest factor.
Am I going to have 4set buff? If yes then Hot hits are the biggest factor.
If both of these are not true then bolt hits instantly become 75% of its total healing.
We also have to remember that Essence Font doesn’t priority lowest HP target or people with the Hot. The rules of Essence Font are simple.
A target can only be hit by 1 bolt every 6 bolts. IE you can’t full channel all 18 bolts into 1 player.
It targets random Injured Players. It does not target the lowest HP player.
Not to be rude but there are a lot of mistakes here that are stated directly in the tooltip and or randomly making talent choice assumptions
i can testify that it does jump to the lowest health target within 30yards upon healing its main target to full.
vers is baked into spell numbers that appear, if your spell says 7.9k that is 100% what you see, the only one it isnt baked into is your mastery stat number that shows in tooltip.
with 40% haste i think you can actually peak at 7 but im not going to hang up on that.
single target this number doesnt add up actually. 50/50 chance is still 50/50 chance, try it right now 10 times, if you get even 1 that isnt bonedusted your point is invalid. chance is chance.
not to mention 100% of 50/50 is still 50/50. you have 50% chance total to obtain a bonedust brew. Get one on every revival til the end of expansion and prove me wrong. until then it will ALWAYS be 50/50. IF its working as intended no number of math will allow you to simulate it with any degree of accuracy.
Crit values are placed into my post. But it can not crit, there is a reason behind it and it is the value shown, if revival crits, then bonedust proc’d and crit, bam thats your 70k. until then its max 24k… 50% of the time.
Not to mention if you are going necrolord you are taking the conduit bonedust brew increase which makes bonedust brew heal for an additional 76 (off the top of my head i think the cap is 80% but i dont care enough to look right now) so 50% chance to proc 40% of the heal…
100 = 40 +80% increase = 70.
30% chance is 30% chance, take away 50% of the gust of mists proc by having to choose your CD mid essence font and suddenly your 30% means nothing. It means nothing to start with. 30% is 30%, never factor it into a 100% chance required to be a raid cooldown.
actually if you take yu’lon reduction it gives you a 2minute CD in raid like druids get 2 minute talent for Tranq, chi-ji outperforms revival in every way because its controllable healing and allows you to put the heals where they matter the most. I simply run yu’lon for the better control and more focused single target tunnel healing it does. Revival takes a back seat.
This is actually so powerful to the point i have a major CD for every down phase of LOD. Be it i run Venthyr for raiding because its better to control the healing with a cooldown that is semi intelligent and reliable vs something as RNG as bonedust. 250-300k per cast is 250-300k per cast amiright? But yu’lon is actually up for 1st and 4th orb, and revival caps it off on 6th, to the point my other healers dont actually need to be healing that fight much in that phase.
i mean have you actually read the tooltip for jade bond? from a mistweavers perspective its actually insanely OP and from the revival conversation only increases its healing output (even if you dont conduit revival reduction). EVERY gusts of mists reduces its cooldown not just 1. so when you are saying you are obtaining 73k in a single revival, which you have said above, you are saying that the some what 80 gusts of mists has reduced your yu’lon/chi-ji by about 30seconds. thats just 1 CD.
not checking the math just shows you are trying to get the most out of it. REMOVE ALL CRITS AND FACTOR IN A SINGLE GUSTS THEN SPEAK ON THIS MATTER. otherwise you just another andy trying to obtain some kinda glout from the forums which is actually insane.
cast it with any addon that shows you spell duration remaining on channel, it instantly says 3.4seconds remaining. Running 40% haste obtains you 2more seconds of a 2.9second channel, 3.4seconds remaining is equal to 3.5seconds or 20.5bolts since 6 bolts come out every second and its a bolt every 0.18seconds (might be 0.17, 6am math is annoying), Haste procs and being slightly over haste cap can obtain you that one extra bolt, youll need to be simming your character better to do this. I have a heavy haste proc so that might be the 3.9seconds im speaking of but it puts me well over haste cap. its used to cover haste problems i randomly come across but i also farm it for a certain proc.
this is actually not a player issue, this is with 4piece running and extended Essence font, simple mechanics or not being in range of the bolts because of doing said mechanics stops targets obtaining essence font or having the previous one dropping off because of no rising mist extend. Sadly it will always happen, not to mention if its mid cast it will always be 2.2seconds left when you should be casting it, but obtaining the exact number doesnt always work out (that is the input issue not set up).
upwelling hits 42 targets actually. the way essence font works is it obtains enough healing to heal the raid once, if it runs out of fresh targets it will always re apply it to the first target, another smart heal but not as smart as renewing. Essence font just uses a target list, when it finishes that list it restarts if the target is in range. This is why it does not just go onto close by members first, it has a set list it deems to be valid with no actual math behind it.
Casting essence font once will obtain you exactly enough to cover a 20man raid 1.04 times, basically renewing the first 2 essence fonts at the end of the cast. the seconds are broken down into less then a second but any good mistweaver that tracks its hots will have an addon or weak aura that will show remaining time (this will show you the remaining time and show you how many targets you hit with it) (ontop of that i have a weak aura that announces to me how many Essence font hits i got with that cast)
im assuming you are stuck on upwelling with this 6x6 number, this is incorrect math but you will also learn what upwelling does when you use it some more. Nobody is taking upwelling nor was it mentioned until you mentioned it.
incorrect, a good fistweaver will just use essence font on cooldown, the reasoning behind this is if rising mists isnt going to be procc’d for anywhere from the next 2-3seconds you are basically setting up for the next rising mists and reset. when you have the stacks but no rising mists and a cooldown remaining on rising sunkick of roughly 2-3seconds its of 0 value to try to reset it when you could just wait 2seconds and reset again. This window comes up roughly every 10seconds (once you have double spammed or in some cases triple spammed for the sweet healing). lets do a little more math to prove that.
GCD is roughly 0.95seconds, so we will say 1second on 40% haste. (might be less but ill leave it at 1 to appease the kids).
TPx3(3seconds), rising sun kick, black out kick, rising sun kick (another 3seconds) Renewing mists (1second) 3seconds remaining, essence font.
Essence font does not target injured players. it targets everyone in the area.
Not to be rude, but you seem to just be trying to obtain the correct answer by not providing any math or knowledge of the class you are writing on teh forums about.
You should probably do some math and come back and ill read your next incorrect post. Maybe it will enlighten me some how (highly doubtful at this point, 2 for 2)
edit: one last thing about responding, if you are going to use any kind of math regarding necrolord or resplendent mists you need to use the base and not factor them in simply because 50% of the time and 30% of the time, it wont happen at all. Wishful numbers and actual numbers do not make for a better class ability.
Could you please send me a screenshot of your Renewing Mist tooltip? It directly states in the tooltip that its 20 yards. Here is a wowhead link to the tooltip https://www.wowhead.com/spell=115151/renewing-mist
I’d also like to see the evidence that it jumps to the lowest HP target as well. I’ve asked around in the Mistweaver class discord and they all disagree with that fact. Would be weird to me if the whole class discord for Mistweaver was incorrect about a mechanic that has been in the game for 6+ years.
Sorry. I missed your edit so here is the other parts you responded to
I mention vers because I was setting up the Spell Power coefficients which those do not include vers as they are absolute ratios.
IE
Vivify has a 143% spell power coefficient on the main heal. This means 143% of your intellect will be converted to healing from the spell itself. Then you run down the modifier train of things like grounding breath, versatility, critical strikes.
So while your numbers already included vers as they were straight from the tooltip my numbers did not as I was listing the formula wow uses to calculate healing from spells.
This is still for a very short amount of time and requires nearly a minute of set up. Very possible but very taxing.
The Gust of Mist part happen no matter what. There is no RNG tied to that at all. You can go test it a billion times and you see it happens a billion times. I strongly encourage you to test it yourself. ONLY THE GUST OF MIST PART HAS NO RNG.
The Duplication part is a chance but we’d follow the Law of Large Numbers on this when doing math. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers
If you look on a small subset of data then you can find it in violation of its probability but that happens everywhere. But we are talking about decently sized sample sizes that conform to the expected probability.
Note: The way to determine if Gust of Mist is from Bonedust Brew or not is either use details/warcraftlogs or check the spell school. Bonedust Brew’s Gust of Mist is shadow healing while normal and Chi-ji’s Gust of Mist is nature.
Correct. Bonedust Brew can’t crit but since it directly is based off a healing value it will act as if it crits. You can test this too.
IE
Vivify normally hits for 100 meaning Bonedust Brew will hit for 40
Vivify crits for 200 meaning Bonedust Brew will hit for 80
AAAA I accidently hit send before finishing so here is the edit
This isn’t an additive increase but rather multiplicative. So its not .4 + .8 its .4 * 1.8 = .72
You would factor the average into it which is what # of GoM hits * probability * effect does
Could you please show me this? This would require 200 gust of mist hits within 2 minutes which is an insane amount of mana to spend.
Yes I have. Its .3 second of CDR per gust of mist proc (this includes Essence Font proced GoM) and x% (this changes with rank) increase to Soothing Breath or Chi-ji’s Gust of mist which I think we both can agree that Soothing Breath does a very low amount of healing. Enveloping Breath doesn’t get increased by Jade Bond.
I never said this. You are mistaken. That was the other person.
I literally just abstracted your math out to Spell Power Coefficients. I didn’t check YOUR MATH because I wasn’t going to make a fuss about it. I was just making it so you could abstract apply any intellect, versatility, and Mastery level to it and evenly compare. You must have mistaken what Spell Power Coefficients are or just don’t know what they are.
I hit it and it shows 2.6 seconds.
I’m sorry but I can’t keep replying to you. There is just so much incorrect information in here that it actually pains me. The fact that you are completely ignore what the tooltip says and core game mechanics hurts me. I hope you can learn how the game actually functions so you can provide feedback in the future but the current information you have about Mistweaver is almost all wrong.
Everything you have said in this thread is 139% accurate. I think ol Blizzrad should listen to you about all things Mistweaver. Have you thought about Revival giving raid wide stagger and DR, but channeled over 6 seconds and a healing amp?
To add here, I don’t think the comparison of Mass Dispel & Revival is beneficial at all. The only similiar thing about them is that they both dispel. Not to mention its accessible to a DPS spec, as is devo aura.
Mass is very offensive. It does no healing like you mentioned, is limited to magic only, but as a trade off comes with a purge (one that is also stronger than other purges).
Revival on the other hand is extremely defensive. Dispels more types of effects, instant cast, and in PvP grants immunty to magic damage & DoTs for 2 seconds.
What they do, how they’re used, and when they’re used is entirely different.
Revival, containing a mass dispel, will be interchangable with mass dispel. It feels bad to have a cooldown reduced to that, but that does not mean that Revival as a cooldown is as strong or as weak as Mass Dispel. However you want to percieve those spells in any context.
Smart healing only applies to spells that need to aquire targets at the time of casting.
When you chain heal for example you consider “who does this jump too and will it do overhealing if it selects the wrong person?”. You wouldn’t want your Chain Heal or Healing Rain or pick a full health target right.
Renewing Mist is not like that, it has built in protection against overhealing and will pick a new injured target instead, it’s similiar to smart healing but it does not select targets based on their health it only cares if they are injured.
Example: Here is the jump at 5:25 after it Overhealed → It selected two targets at the 90% health threshold more or less, instead of jumping to any of the hunters or the mage.
No I don’t think so friend. That would just mean Mistweaver would do no healing and put a fat dot on the whole raid after 6 seconds and then I’d have to carry in order to heal the raid wide stagger dot with my measily 6 target cap healing rain in addition to all the other outgoing damage.
i won’t lie, i ain’t reading all that, but also i play mastery/vers so ya your numbers are going to be a lot lower than mine>
my gusts don’t hit for 1.6K they hit for 5.5K w/o crit.
also i’m pretty sure gusts always proc bonedust, you can test it
idk about a forums post buffing mw revival if you refuse to get bonedust or EF up prior, or run stats that make it powerful;
also its not realistic to say you’re using it randomly in a clutch moment, because everyone should know exactly when you’re going to use it, including you, far ahead of time.
my math is right, and 100/100 times you do it, the entire raid will be 100% hp from like 10%… so its not really rng either. i don’t think i’ve ever hit revival in a raid and everyone not be 100% hp. but once again, i run a different stat prio
all healers can damage but we dont compare them to dps.
ive actually saved a raid with two priests massive dispelling halondrus to purge the stacks, yes it shouldnt of gotten to that point but it did, and it saved the kill. Most priests refuse to use it tho because it “wastes mana” simply because they didnt talent finesse into mana reduction
thats the thing, if you are casting your renewing mists, and one of your previous renewing mists jumps to the target you are placing it on, the lesser duration renewing will find a new host. two can not exist from the same monk on the same target at a time. Hence smart
The lost soul debuff is what is showing on the hunters and mage paladin and dk. Lost Soul is the down debuff which none of those players are within range due to being phased from the monk that you linked the healing log for.
Ontop of all of this you have no indication of which target has your current hot or which has just taken damage. you are just showing the target who recieved the renewing mist jump, which Beekays has had atleast 1second to be healing higher by multiple other healers in a 2man raid (1 other in this scenario which im assuming is either a priest druid or pally based on class layout) holyshock is going to heal some one from 30-40% to full or near it (currently looks like the situation), Renew from a priest counters the dot that is on him so probably a echo of light from a major heal (also viable),.
The most likely candidate tho is resto druid. They have cast a rejuv/regrowth cast on him within the last 2seconds, ontop of that, a good druid will also place a healing circle on the ground to heal those targets up, at mythic levels you will be good enough to have multiple hots on almost all the raid (not to mention the 4piece).
Update me if im right plz, very interested
Edit: i was wrong, its the holy priest AND resto druid
So what this allows you to do is have 4-5 hots on the target beekays (renewing, echo, renew, rejuv,regrowth wild growth) which would always push them higher. Renewing mist will not jump until the target is fully healed so Neonpet has not recieved one because Beekays had lower health a second earlier.
i dont want revival buffed, the numbers i have shown have included all bonedust brew procs. I want revival fixed or removed and replaced with something more effective.
i dont think revival is the answer, it has always been a fickle thing to use and requires a major revamp to fix to the point it might aswell just be replaced with a new skill.
according to Warcraftlogs your peak healing is 6k. 22.3parse across about 8/11 fights, all on normal. I dont like to bring stuff like that up but i like to compare stat weights
edit: Reviewing my logs which are Crit 40%, Vers 19% haste 5% and mastery 68% which i am only 60-70 parse but 92 for my ilvl im pulling 12-14k. Much room for improvement on my behalf, or reduction of healers in my raid but i will never recommend that because i enjoy our healers
My other monk which is haste vers is 65 parse with 28% haste 22% vers 12% crit and 50% mastery is pulling 10-12k (its an alt so i put in little effort)
Re-Edit: Also according to wowarmory you are a pvp geared character so your opinion on the 20man healing isn’t really valid because you do it in BG’s where healing reduction is a thing.
