i for one would prefer a Mistweaver play style, it was dominant in all the good eras of wow after MoP, basically Legion and only started to take off during BFA at the start and then towards the end because of a bug and then an over powered item.
Mistweaver has always been the stronger version except for 5 of the 17 raids released in its life time
That is ridiculous, the monk community is well aware of both fistweaving and mistweaving. It has been that way for years, there is nothing new about this
You are asking to remove something that a lot of Mistweavers enjoy with is the caster build. I understand where ur coming from but try to think from there perspective. How would u feel if they removed the fistweaving talents?
i would not bother, the Fistieboi4lyf mentality got to this person… they are lost
I think sheiluns is really good atm. Would be nice to have it be instant but that probably wont happen. Could also spread the healing to 4 people. The lessons are ridiculously good. Last night on +20 hyrja, anger did 700k by itself and shei’s heal was over 600k on the fight overall. Insane healing. I didn’t even need my revival there was so much healing with shei + Chi-JI.
The problem with MW is that Rdruid / Pvoker are still way high. It makes everyone look bad. It just isn’t our time in keys atm. We still don’t have the flashy group utility.
It doesn’t matter if u melee or caster play. Its comes down to tuning. With 1 little blue line of text you go from F tier to meta.
Still the most fun healer.
im currently maining a Prevoker because of this, im a Alpha MoP Mistweaver by nature, and have not strayed from the path until under perfrmance was a thing.
i just want both parts of the fistweave and mistweave to be a thing and completely valid at end game raiding/M+
Both can go to +22/23.
Both can get top 25 parses in raid.
They both are viable.
To be honest, the ‘playstyle differentiation’ is kind of an obfuscation of an issue in our tree.
‘fistweaving’ and ‘soothing mist’ effectively lock each other out; Soothing Mist requires too much gcd investment for adding melee to work effectively. So in either direction we lose a lot of choice from the talent tree which is definitely a problem compared to other classes.
Added to the large number of long cooldown related talents we have and a lot of our ‘underpowered’ nature kind of becomes understandable.
Oof what a bad take, and one that isn’t even true. You’re not a dev, dont claim to know what their intention is.
The way the MW tree is designed it currently allows for both styles to exist more than anything. Abilities like sheilun’s, tears, CF would not exist otherwise. MW is healthier when it allows for multiple builds like it currently does.
Monk healers have:
5x less representation in raids than resto druid and 50x less +20 or higher completed m+ this week post buff
3.5x less representation than preservation and 40x less +20 or higher
2.7x less than holy priests in raids and 4.5x less in m 20+ or higher
2x MORE representation than disc in raid and and 5.5x LESS in m+20
resto sham and holy pal have 1.5x the number of players in raid but 4x and 6x as many 20+ keys done this week
Druid and preservation are an order of magnitude better in mythic+ and its not just because of representation.
As far as the topic of conversation goes having played both specs my general thoughts are as follows
Fistweaving
Mistweaving
Monk healer problems in general that are keeping them down in my opinion
-Healing reaction time: Like disc they can’t afford your group making mistakes, celestials are on the gcd and chiji especially needs to be setup to work properly. the changes to revival really helped but its on a 3 min cooldown, sheilun’s is great but a shorter cast would really cement it as a clutch burst save which monk sorely lacks.
-Mana: fistweaving is pretty decent but baseling monks mana consumption is just banana’s. Most healers have a quick expensive heal and a slower cheaper (often larger) heal. Monks have a quick expensive heal and a super expensive slow heal. Enveloping mist should be half as much mana baseline to comparable to other healers slower better heal.
-Essence font: Putting this right after mana problems for obvious reasons. It costs more than 2 vivifys, takes as much time to cast as 2 vivs but does less overall healing than 2 vivifys if you have 2+ renewing mists out. Its hps without a full upwelling AND thunder focus tea is so anemic you can only channel it for a gcd in 5 man content just to spread double mastery procs for chiji or mistweaving. Upwelling + tea should make this a fairly strong ~30 second cooldown which are very relevant in m+ but currently essence font is so bad its borderline unusable without tft and a full upwelling. The disparity between essence font usability in raids vs 5 man content is insane.
-Healing range: evokers were touted as the mid range healer, but mistweaver has some crippling range issues if you compare it to a 40 yard kit. Renewing mist jump 20 yards, ancient teachings 30 yards, enveloping mist our major cooldown, I have no idea how far but less than 20 yards for sure. Renewing mist should be at least 30, if not 40+ like adaptive swarm and enveloping breath should be 30 yards like aoe beacon or wild growth or spirit bloom or etc…
-Chi wave/burst are very undertuned but at least we don’t have to worry about button bloat for them i guess, just a wasted talent on the way to close to the heart. If anything the 3 auras are much better capstones than the statues, make them single point capstones and put the statues in out of the way pathing, easy to pick up if you want and not required to get auras.
That’s my current take on monks, we’re not and probably shouldn’t get a full rework to make them mop monks or legion monks or etc… it will never make everyone happy, but even after last patch there’s definitely some issues left that are holding monk healers back behind the pack that could be easily tweaked without making them op or drastically changing the way they play.
I don’t think a full rework is necessary. I vastly prefer mistweaving, especially bc I pug M+. I like the current talents, although I would like a higher % on the jumping and procing of extra RM and EnM. I am loving the addition of SG to my build and so far mana is not an issue. I rarely have to sit and drink. If I had to ask for something, it would be a talent like Vivacious Vivication for soothing mist, allow it to be used while moving on a short recharge.
SG and the changes to Yu’Lon really helped mana wise. I dont seem to have as many mana issues any more either in m+ with full tears/CF build, and in my raid hybrid build using Yu’Lon every minute is doable now without innervates. SG replacing vivify spam alone and being a huge cooldown nuke heal saves so much mana when we would have to vivify spam or blow revival. Im loving it :3
If people are still having mana issues after the change it’s most likely a play issue, or overusing EF/Env mist, or not taking the time to regen mana as often as possible in m+, or people are missing too many mechanics. In raids SotC is really nice for mana regen, Chillglobe too adds dps early fight and then is very nice mana regen later on.
We’re pretty close to how the spec played in Legion already, esp with the return on Sheilun’s, but yeah we dont need a rework at all. ( unless it’s to make Yu’Lon a full time gas blasting pet )
I’ve moved my MW to 17s, and i never have to drink anymore (using tear/clouded focus)
Yeah, ranged mistweaver is totally viable. I’d even make an argument that it’s easier to ramp hps output when needed outside of a Yu’lon window with a higher hps ceiling in single target fights too. The drawback is you’re doing almost zero dps unless you’re making an effort to sit near the mob pack which isn’t always a great decision while you’re channeling SM.
Conversely, fistweaving basically rewards the healer with a lot of passive healing… just punch and kick things while AT is up and you’ll have a substantial hps throughput. That said, it is difficult to single target heal while maintaining that passive output because we have to stop kicking in order to press (most) of our other buttons. So, there’s a significant opportunity cost of doing and making a bad decision is one way fistweavers fall behind in a fight. That opportunity cost doesn’t exist for ranged mistweavers… it’s just soothing mist and press Vivify & EM as needed.
That opportunity cost can be addressed if they make Vivify instant or enveloping mist periodically instant.
Not sure why they reverted the instant Vivify’s early on In beta. I also think Jade Serpent Statue needs a major overhaul, casting it again and again everytime you move is a bit outdated tbh.
the opportunity cost in fistweaving doesn’t change with instant vivify. The spell costs one gcd in either case. Enveloping mist would gain quite a bit if we had more ways to reduce it’s cast time then just Chi-Ji.
I know you’re not saying this, but I really don’t want more things tied to Chi’ji’s cooldown. Fistweaver needs at least one more way of ramping heals other than Chi’ji so that there’s options just in case Chi’ji isn’t used optimally. Oddly, I think a damage burst window cooldown would work well into the flavor without interrupting our rotation… like if Sheilun’s buffs were predictable.
mist or fist? I’ve found fist with sheiluns since patch is pretty good now on mana, but i’ve played both holys mist and evokers this expansion and casting fistweaver chews an unreasonable amount of mana comparable to other healers in my experience.
Now that blizzard seems to be listening to feedback for once i’d rather not stop at well mistweaver can do 20’s thats good enough, or we can make it through encounters without running completely dry. It’s not too much to be asked to be balanced against the other healers and not some arbitrary content benchmark.
On a damage note, they stole acid rain from torghast for shamans and buffed it until it was viable damage, maybe they could do the same for ranged spec and add corrosive dosage somewhere in the tree, preferably as a choice node with an important fistweaving talent like ancient teachings so you can’t get both. (Clouded focus could be moved up the tree to an easy to reach location)
I’ve been asking for this since I first saw that