Mistweaver in m+

Classes Monk
42

You gotta stop putting emotion into what people type. We’re not angry just because we’re disagreeing with you. Also we’re not misconstruing what you’re saying, we’re saying that you don’t always need the healing from EvM and just casting ReM is enough in the majority of low to medium healing scenarios. that’s all.

It’s more time to cast EvM even with soom so you’re overhealing and doing less damage than you could be, both are bad.

If you EvM then Kick/Vivify, and that kick or vivify tops them off, then EvM sits there ticking doing nothing which is a waste, and you did 1 less global of damage, which is significant because you will be using less Blackout Kicks which means you will have less Rising Sun Kicks and then that creates a vicious cycle where because you have fewer RSKs you have to use more hard casted heals to top the party off and then you deal
Less damage etc

1 Like
43

No, that’s not at all what you’re saying. You keep moving the goal posts to narrower and narrower scenarios because you refuse to admit you might be wrong.

Saying ‘there’s only so many GCDs and people can die’ is not ‘RM is sufficient for triage healing’. Those are OPPOSITE scenarios.

If you’re ramping SooM is not an overheal and ANY healing is good healing in that regard. In that case EM is far superior. Since you get EM and a RM for free. In those scenarios the extra healing will make or break a key. Coalgamation, Anub’ikkaj, Stichflesh when you get 2 abominations, etc…

No you didn’t. EM + kick is the same damage as RM + kick, but does more healing. Sometimes a LOT more healing since it’ll roll longer than the 8s RM has for it’s healing bonus, and often stacks with RM for even more healing. And longer/more healing means less needing to recast. You get 8s off RM at best, 14s off EM. That saved GCDs for more dps.

You’re literally just making up nonsense at this point. Using EM will both overheal and underheal… because logic!??

/facepalm

There is a time when RM is superior to EM, and that’s when you have to move and don’t want to use CoC (if ur specced into it). That’s it. If you can stand still for the cast, EM is superior in a Chi-Harmony build.

Now if you want to spam RM, use a Lotus Infusion raid build, then spam RM all day long.

44

This is probably my last post talking to you. Either you don’t actually read or are trolling.

This whole thing started because you’ve been saying to not cast RM in M+, which is bad advice.

You keep saying to cast EvM whenever you need to apply chi harmony instead of casting RM, because the extra bonus healing.

What I’ve been trying to explain to you is that you don’t need to cast EvM to apply chi Harmony in low to medium damage scenarios — which is the majority of a M+ dungeon — because simply pressing RM and continuing to do your DPS rotation is better. I’ve told you that this scenario is different than a ramping scenario for high damage events where you will perform an EvM ramp…

There are many reasons why:

  1. It’s overhealing. You’re not actually benefiting any more than just casting RM
  2. Time casting EvM is reducing your time casting Blackout Kick → you have fewer total casts of Rising Sun Kick
  3. Fewer total casts of Rising Sun Kick means that you have less healing power through DPS and are forced to hard cast more EvMs
  4. Even though you won’t run out of mana, casting more EvMs means you will spend more time channeling mana tea instead of DPSIng
  5. Healer DPS Is important in TWW. It’s not negligible. I can burst over 1.5 million on big pulls with the group and that damage is essential to completing the key in time. It makes it so that there is less damage taken by the party because the mobs are dead before they can cast debuffs, cast a bolt spell, or melee the tank. There are a limited number of player interrupts per pull and in higher keys you have to minimize interruptible spells by killing things before they cast. It also allows the DPS to be more efficient with their cooldowns. For every second that the mobs are lingering and the DPS are sitting on their cooldowns because they can’t use it til the next trash pack is bad.

—

There is a difference between saying “Never use RM” and “Don’t use RM during your Ramp” but you’re not clarifying that. You’re just saying never use RM.

Of course during a ramp you will cast 3-4 EvMs and this will put 6-8 Renewing mists on the party. No one is arguing that point with you. But for you to say “never use RM in M+” is just not good for new players to hear.

No it’s not.
You’re not considering the opportunity cost.
By casting EvM you are excluding the possibility of casting a Bok.

A more realistic scenario is EM+ RSK vs RM + RSK + BOK. These take the same amount of time but the difference is that the additional BoK does healing too, lowering the value of EvM, and it can proc a RSK reset. This means that in this scenario you can have more total casts of RSK compared to EM + RSK.

Having more casts of RSK means that you can cast fewer EvMs and continue DPSing and reset RSK more.

1 Like
45

Which is objectively false. Which was covered already. Pressing RM doesn’t make your rotation ‘better’.

False. If you’re in a scenario where overhealing is a thing, you didn’t need to press either button and were better off simply carrying on with your rotation.

False, time casting EvM is not different than time spent casting RM. The only difference is less healing requiring MORE casts which means less dps.

Again, inventing scenarios.

Not true, if you have mana issues as a monk you’re playing it wrong. Period. On top of that EvM + RM almost identical healing per point of mana (slightly in favor of EvM but I’m not going over the math as clearly you wouldn’t read it, nor does it matter at all).

And you’ll get MORE casting EvM over RM since you’ll have to cast it less often.

I said, very clearly, don’t use RM unless you HAVE to cast while on the move. That’s it. That’s the only scenario where RM beats EvM. Unless of course you have the insta-cast proc from Chi-Ji, then use EvM.

Yes they are.

/facepalm

No they don’t. It’s EvM + kick or RM + kick. RM isn’t off the GCD. The difference is less than 0.5s, 1/3 a GCD and that’s ONLY if you’re casting EvM without a Strength of the Black Ox, or Chi-Ji proc, which is generally what you do since SotBO is up most of the time. Which also procs AOE healing.

But even without either proc, it’s still better because it rolls longer, heals much more, meaning you have to stop your rotation less down the line.

And at no point do you get more RSKs using RM over EvM.

46

Yeah I agree with you in the “”hopium” case that the insurance proc on rapid diffusion RM, it will be okey.

Otherwise meh.

Let’s see when we can test it out

47

Can you share how you do that? Best I’ve done is 850k, and the pack died pretty fast and I also got in a touch of death

48

Need to use Master of Harmony hero talents and copy my talent build.

The stat priority is crit / vers and then however much haste you need to be responsive. For me it’s around 10%, but 15% is more comfortable, but I just don’t have the right gear and I’ve quit for the season since I joined it late earlier in the season. I’ll probably come back next season

Basically, you have 2 Thunder focus teas which means you have 2 Crackling Jade Lightnings. Focused Thunder gives you an extra RSK on each tea. master of Harmony causes your ST kicks to cleave in a line. You use secret infusion versatility + invokers delight to pump out a ton of damage every 1 min

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49

Rapid Diffusion ren mists do indeed proc insurance - just tested now on the PTR. RWK/RSK both Rapid Diff proc the ren mist, which procs insurance because 4 set.

2/4 set will be pretty good for us :3

2 Likes
50

Definitely for m+

For raiding I think it will probably be mid, but that will depend on the damage patterns in the raid.

I made a post in GD about how blizzard might have to design raids this season with all healer specs applying Insurance to the raid.

It should be common for players to have 2-4 stacks of insurance and so when they drop to 40% they’re gonna get topped off really quick lol

It makes me think there will like a ton of damage going out because they need to break through all of the insurance procs, which will top everyone off, and then deal threatening damage again within a short window. So I’m expecting to see a ton of rot damage or back to back slams.

Basically, if the damage patterns keep everyone below full health a lot, our tier will be good, but the longer people stay at full health, we will get less and less value out of our tier in raid. Similarly, if there are a lot of effects that bring people below 40% in 1 mechanic, then we will be good because we can do a big insurance ramp.

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51

Uh huh! It will add some protection to anyone who takes a large hit, which happens often enough in m+ situations.

I wonder if they designed the HoT portion more for raids and the “heals for x when under 40%” portion more for m+. It should be nice with the ren mist / RWK build where you have lots of Renewing Mists up.

Ren mist coverage will still be pretty important in all content because of the 4 set’s other bonus:

“The healing of Insurance! is increased by up to 50% in proportion to the coverage Renewing Mist has on you and up to 10 allies”

52

During soothing mist you are instant casting and subject to the base 1.5s cast time, whereas base cast time of env mist is 2s. 25% reduction, or 33% increase in speed.

Before peer you could soothing into insta env mist which was a 0.5s cast time upfront, but then a 1.5s gcd after so you effectively werent saving time, just getting it faster upfront.

But with the swapping you skip that Initial 0.5s soothing mist wind up

53

Can confirm it does. So it’s kinda nuts

1 Like
54

What about putting a talent point into secret infusion and hard casting 1 EnvM with a thunder focused tea into an instant EnvM, since that also gives the healing boost from TfT

55

What are your goals with this?

56

I’m trying to start to mistweave and now more confused than before. Is there a good up to date guide because wowheads specifically says get RMs out as much as possible, but in this thread it says forget it unless you’re on the move.

Are we supposed to hard cast EvM for vivify cleave only? How else are you healing if you aren’t putting ReM on targets to cleave. Is it just the use of RSK that gets ReMs out alone?

Is there a nice summary and writeup for how to handle light/moderate and then 1 for high anticipated AoE damage healing?

57

Misinformation will do that.

Follow the QE mistweaver guide or WoWhead’s. Could also check the resources on the peak of serenity discord/pins/

The one guy saying this isnt even posting on a mistweaver, and no one else in here, on the discords, or on the guides shares that view. So Id take this with a grain of salt because they are giving hard troll vibes too and just seem to want to argue.

No. Press renewing mists and spread around on as much of the group as you can so that you aren’t struggling to do it last minute when aoe or unexpected damage happens. It is extremely easy to maintain Ren Mists on the group even without Rising Mist talented. You can hold one Ren Mist charge to quickly burst someone back up with a chi harmony RenMist->VV vivify.
Either way never cap renewing mist charges and press it. Maintaining renewing mist on the group makes cleave healing medium aoe damage up super quick and easy, plus you get more chances to proc Zen Pulse because more renewing mists. It’s very good to do in m+ pugs where people are probably going to be taking a ton more damage than they should, and if you don’t enjoy running Jadefire stomp it’s even more important.

From the guide: " Renewing mist is our most important spell for any build we’re in, and we generally want to cast it whenever it’s available, without sitting at our maximum amount of charges."

Mistweaver Monk Rotation Guide - The War Within 11.0.7 - Wowhead

Seriously just stick to the wowhead guide, tons of good info there from the people who actually play and run numbers/etc. If you want to instead run a non meta / non jadefire stomp build in m+ it’s still mostly the same info too and ( from someone who ran/runs non meta m+ builds because I dislike jadefire stomp ) you still want to be spreading/maintaining your renewing mists on the group - while also trying your best to contribute any damage/stuns/interrupts. While there are playstyle variations depending on talents you still want to maintain renewing mists on the group in any build/playstyle. Would you rather be prepared for unexpected/expected damage? Or force yourself to ramp late and risk deaths?

Worst case scenario if you still need further help Id join the peak of serenity discord.

4 Likes
58

Oof I would never. If Im gonna use secret infusion to supplement env ramp I would always instead use tft on renewing Mist for the haste

59

You’re best bet is to not cast RM unless necessary. This is because in M+ you’re using Chi Harmony (not Lotus Infusion) and you want the +50% healing bonus. What isn’t immediately obvious is hard casting RM (not getting it free from Rapid Diffusion) can decrease your overall healing.

The Chi Harmony +50% bonus only applies to the first 8s of a RM, regardless of whether you cast it manually, or apply it via Rapid Diffusion. The problem is RM hard casted lasts from 20s-60s (depending on talents, Rising Mist procs, thunder tea, etc…). Rapid Diffusion will not overwrite a longer duration RM. So you hard cast RM, then kick a few times pushing the timer up, those kicks will not proc rapid diffusion on the targets that need it if they already have a RM on them.

Rather cast EvM which will proc RM and get you all the bonuses (more healing, longer rolling HoT, longer duration of +healing bonus) and interacts with some very nice talents.

Use a WeakAura (or similar) to track Strength of the Black Ox (if you’re talented into it) and the Chi-Ji/Yulon insta-cast EvM. Between the two you should always have a quick EvM to toss on someone who might need quick triage. You can also ThunderTea an insta-cast one as well. Remember, you’re getting a lot more healing in all these scenarios. Strength of the Ox gives an AOE shield. EvM during Chi-Ji/Yulon cast an AOE hot and increases all healing on the targets by another 10%. ThunderTea EvM heals it’s entire amount upfront as well as over the hot given a big burst. There’s a LOT of layers to EvM healing.

If you have the Peer into Peace talent you can cast that and then blast insta-cast EvMs to cover a group with both EvMs and RMs and do some massive vivify healing.

For light healing, just kick/punch and toss the odd Strength of the Black Ox procs onto tank for free HPS. For single target focus toss EvM and then if necessary a vivify (but most of the time EvM will suffice) then back to kicking/punching.

AoE in lower keys use a CD. If you can stay in and melee use Chi-Ji. If you have to move use conduit (if you’re specced into it). If you’re forced out of range and/or there’s many targets lightning or Sheilun’s. If crap hits the fan, you have cocoon (off the GCD) and Revival.

In later keys where you need to ramp I use SooM into EvM. SooM + EvM + vivify is great for high single target damage like Anima Slash. The only real downsides to SooM spam is that you can go oom pretty quick (pretty much the only thing in the MW kit that can burn mana), you’re not dpsing (but keeping your tank alive is more important than you’re 5s of 400k dps), and you have to be stationary. It can also get clunky when the servers are slow, so use sparingly.

61

Here let me sift through the soomweaver quality “math” you provided…

…nothing.

Maintaining Renewing Mists on the group is still more healing then not maintaining Renewing Mist on the group, esp when you need to go into ramp/burst and when you get more zen pulses. Oh and Inspiration! tier bonus scales with more ren mists next season.

Doesn’t take a genius to know that - just someone who plays the class.

Either way, you’ve been reported for being toxic, and hopefully you get a much needed break.

Info you seek friend is all in the guildes/Peak of Serenity Discord. I would start there so you don’t get even more confused.

2 Likes
62

/facepalm

False.

You’re better off spending the time dpsing and using triage healing. And like I explained repeatedly, hard casting RM can prevent Rapid Diffusion procs which inhibits the +50% Chi Harmony bonus.

Which I covered…

And then things might change next season. But that’s a non sequitur.

And apparently someone who can’t do basic math. You’re the one trolling here, telling people false information, and attacking others.

When you know you can’t defend your position…