/pat
It’s ok, we’ll get another 1k druid beta thread again
Why aren’t ppl mentioning this in overall class changes in the Druid alpha feels like it is been brushed aside kind of like feral.
To comment on Renewal, I’ve asked about it in the past, and they like it as a simple talent. It’s not that it needs changes, it’s sorta designed to be boring.
Wild Charge, I think should be a baseline spell for Feral and Guardian. Then bring back Feline Swiftness as a talent +15% movement) at the expense of nerfing Cat Form down from 30% to +15% movement speed.
I still feel Balance Affinity should be Innervate, and HOTW made baseline. Then Typhoon returns as a talent.
Berserk is pretty boring, and doesn’t feel strong. Rage of the Sleeper rolling into it would be great.
Not sure why Bears don’t seem to have Infected Wounds…
We don’t want Infected Wounds back, we need Bloody Paws.
I meant, no baseline snare. mb
But it really isn’t. Look at your list from last month.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-druid-class-changes/490706/14
It’s only 10 items long. And really if they only address 7/10, we’d be so much more fun to play.
1- Bloody Paws : easy to re-introduce by just slapping in on Thrash.
2- Rage of the Sleeper : bake this into the new Berserk. They’re reintroducing Berserk anyway; use the old RoTS features to make it a strong ability.
3 - Gutteral Roars : an easy fix to give this to all Druid specs. Not a critical one (IMO) but it does make Stampeding Roar more fun.
4 - Fae Silence : My personal dream. I loved this. This one is obviously going to take a little work, but for me it’d be well worth it. It’s fun and useful.
5 - “Rage on Pull” : I personally haven’t experience this problem, but I’m not doing as much content that is super threatening for my gear/skill. That said, bumping Rage on shift to 40 just isn’t very difficult. Susie the intern could handle this one.
6 - Innervate : Not as important to me, but I definitely see the extremely powerful utility here. But this seems like it’d be a bit of work to incorporate (and balance).
7 - Spells in Form : I’m not sure how simple this would be to incorporate, but they were able to do it with our Battle Rez, so why not?
8 - Pawsitive Outlook : A fun ability that shakes up the rotation. Not hard to re-introduce, as it was already there before. Just need to balance the numbers around it. But see #10 below.
9 - Primal Fury : Probably not that hard to incorporate. But then again, it’s just another feature to balance our Rage generation. To me, it artificially makes Crit useful, since our Rage gen will just be nerfed somewhere else to offset. Personally, I’d rather it do something more interesting on Crit.
10 - Gore : Making this affect Thrash is really interesting. Maybe just drop Swipe from Gore. Then a revamped Pawsitive Outlook (and yes, that is one of the best ability names in the game) makes Swipe have a chance to reset (and buff?) Thrash. This one might take some work, but would definitely be worth it.
So… is this list really all that daunting? It’s only 10 things (and I even merged #8 and #10 to cut it to 9). And half of them are really simple and quick fixes. For the more involved changes, pick 3 to work on. I really don’t think it’s an unreasonable workload.
My point is that I don’t want to give them the excuse that it’s too much to do it all, so let’s not do anything.
Let’s just say for a moment that Blizzard say “No” to the list of 10 things above or to any other list/feedback that was suggested by the community and the current playbook of Guardian will go live as is. I would at least like to know why they aren’t considering or making additional changes. I think that is the biggest obstacle for players to overcome.
What is their vision for Guardian (or all tanks)? Perception is reality to the masses and the perception is that 3/4 specs are being looked at and Guardian is the afterthought where all of the pieces lay where they fall.
I was extremely disappointed to learn that Guardian and Feral seem to have been forgotten again in Shadowlands. I would very much like to see positive changes for both specs. That said, these calls to nerf Resto and Balance by reintroducing the same BS mechanics you (correctly) claim are holding Guardian (and to a lesser degree, Feral) back need to stop. Don’t you think that “nerf the specs that are doing well so that we can all be terrible together” is a little self defeating?
I’m not sure that replacing one well performing, but controversial talent with a crappier, but still controversial talent counts as being looked at.
At this point, I’d LOVE to say it is only Alpha, but after BfA, I ain’t gonna be that forum dummy. I hope that they can get their 
together, but at this point, I am jadded beyond belief, and say “Yeah, they will probably screw the pooch and not fix it until next expack.”
But they did Feral by some form of design. I am not saying they are correct with the change but they made a deliberate change for some reason or another.
They are borking Guardian by sheer lack of foresight to what happens when they flip this switch and turn this knob.
For the benefit of us non-alpha testers, please make sure to add input about the latest changes as I pointed out to Tewa(The increase from 1 sec to 5 secs for Brambles) on the Alpha class forums.
At this point, and considering Blizzard’s apparent “Resto First, Resto Always” design attitude toward Druids, no.
For years now it has been an irritant. Something we’ve slowly been improving on, starting with potions usable in forms (remember when they weren’t?) then Battle Rez in forms (although Ferals inexplicably lost that…) and Remove Corruption halfway through BfA (yay!).
But there’s a double whammy right now that, taken together, have really been the last straw for a lot of Ferals & Guardians.
The first was the list of COOL NEW THINGS FOR DRUIDS (Cyclone, Heart of the Wild) which are fantastic for Resto Druids and completely worthless for Feral/Guardian. Compound this with Torghast which has the Druid perk of HEART OF THE WILD IS NOW PERMANENT which just shows how tone-deaf the developers are on this issue, since this “Druid perk” in Torghast just doubles down on their lack of understanding of how Feral/Guardian even work.
The second was giving Stampeding Roar, our only utility, to Balance/Resto. While we (Feral/Guardian) STILL DO NOT HAVE INNERVATE so it’s a 1-way street.
If you don’t get what a colossal deal the Stampeding Roar thing is, well… then you just don’t get it.
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Comparing these two stuns doesn’t make sense. Yes they are both talented but they’re used by two different classes, both with entirely different toolkits. Druids in general have a lot more utility compared to warriors. I would imagine the ranges stun is given to warriors due to their lack of mobility compared to druids.
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Resto & Balance Druids do, and even more so in Shadowlands. Guardian, no, in fact Guardian is losing most of its utility in Shadowlands.
And that’s the problem with having 1-size-fits-all talents for Druid with no adjustment per spec.
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I can agree with that.
It seems to be for Blizzard, though, and that’s the problem. We’ve been screaming at the top of our lungs since BfA alpha about being the only tank in the game without a slow, and they can’t even manage to fix that. Not just through the entirety of BfA, but now not even in Shadowlands.
I mean, their “fix” was to add Honeypot Pie, a food buff we can use to apply a slow to things that hit us. Seems to be their final word on the answer.
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I agree that Guardian won’t get much use out of those due to being stuck in bear form most of the time. I wouldn’t put Feral in the same boat though. It’s inconvenient that they have to spend a GCD to get back into form after casting Cyclone, but that hardly makes it useless. Heart of the Wild actually may actually be best for Feral (and Balance). Saving an attempt by stepping in for a fallen tank or healer is pretty much the reason HotW exists. Resto will use it to pump some DPS on an extremely long cool down, but is unlikely to see that same kind of impact.
I’m happy to see Stampeding Roar return to Balance and Resto, but I totally get it. Your one unique thing is no longer a unique thing. I would totally give you Innervate in return if it were up to me, but it isn’t. Please stop taking your frustrations out on your fellow Druids. We’re as powerless in all this as you are! More so, since most of us aren’t in the alpha. >_<
Innervate wouldn’t be enough, if the notion is “go back to the old days” then everyone should get Tranquility, too. Then we’d actually have a healing spell worth using - maybe even with Heart of the Wild! 
I think your assessment of Heart of the Wild is off-base, too. The primary beneficiary is the spec that is already doing its off-role the most, which is Resto Druids in M+ dungeons, where they go kitty a lot while their HoTs take care of the healing. Heart of the Wild is yet another Resto Druid buff, even while the playerbase in general is complaining about Resto Druids being overpowered in M+.
And I get that you’re annoyed that Druids want Druid nerfs, but it’s clearly reached a point where Resto (and maybe Balance) are being improved at the EXPENSE of Feral/Guardian. Another example of this being the Swiftmend change in Shadowlands, which is trivial for Resto Druids but catastrophic for how Feral/Guardian benefited from Resto Affinity.
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Where is this idea coming from? Resto is seeing minimal changes in Shadowlands, and not all of them are for the better. I think you’d be hard pressed to find a Resto Druid arguing that the Swiftmend change was a buff, or excited to trade Typhoon for Maim, or looking forward to mana cost increases. Now, I agree that Guardian is worse off than Resto, but the idea that there is some incredible amount of development time going into Resto, and somehow at the expense of Guardian is just silly.
Swiftmend isn’t a buff, but it’s an example of a change that they casually threw in to “make it like it used to be” keeping only Resto in mind, and ignoring how it removes the largest benefit of resto affinity to other specs.
Heart of the Wild is being shoe-horned in as a Resto Buff, or if we want to be charitable, as another “like the old days” ability that just happens to primarily benefit Resto. They’re adding it to the CC row in a way that majorly shafts Guardian.
Since Guardian IS THE ONLY TANK WITH NO SLOW for some reason, we rely on a combo of Typhoon + Ursol’s to kite, especially during Necrotic weeks.
That combo will no longer be possible for Guardian because Ursol’s is getting shunted into the Resto affinity. Too bad the Swiftmend utility is being removed at the same time as a casualty of changes to Resto Druids.
So we’re losing a CRITICAL CC combo that let’s us do Necrotic, to have a new talent added to the tree that we don’t even benefit from.
The Cyclone discussion (which is also being touched on in other threads here) is spurring the silliness that Resto Druids get access to everything, such as Cyclone, while other specs get shut off from it. All coming from this design notion of Blizzard that Resto Druids need to be able to do EVERYTHING that the class can do, but the same doesn’t apply to the other specs.
All at a time when Resto Druids are already one of the most over-represented specs in the game. They’re buffing the most played spec and nerfing the least-played specs, often in order to buff the most played spec.
It’s insane game design.
And it all goes back to the original question that is the subject of this thread: Why is Mighty Bash being nerfed? Because of Resto Druids.
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