Midnight Survival Issues that NEED to be Addressed

Classes Hunter
1

Mobility

Terms of Engagement needs to return in some way. Harpoon sitting at a 30 second cooldown with no way to reset is simply unacceptable. Imagine Warriors losing Double Time and having the cooldown of Charge increased to 30 seconds. Imagine Sub Rogues losing Shadowstrike and second charge of Shadowstep. That’s where we’re sitting.

Takedown needs its range increased. Coordinated Assault had a 40 yrd range with a 1 min cd and Flanking Strike had 15 yrd range with a 30 sec cd. Having this all reduced to a 15 yrd range on a 1 min cd is a massive loss in our ability to connect to targets, which is absurd given all the talents that emphasize auto-attack damage and our Apex talents requiring melee range.

Survival’s mobility on live is one of the greatest reasons to play the spec. What you’ve reduced this to in Midnight feels like an effort to seek out and destroy what makes the spec fun to play.

Hatchet Toss

Aside from the speed of the projectile needing vast improvement, this ability needs a major upgrade to justify its existence in the wake of losing long-standing core abilities like Kill Shot and Serpent Sting. I think the most sensible improvement to this ability short of removing it altogether would be to have it deal 250% of attack power (Raptor Strike deals 286%), but increase to 500% against enemies below 20% health, effectively taking up the mantle of Kill Shot. This would give the ability a reason to exist across both Hero Trees.

Bonus points if you give it a built-in bleed effect to give some needed weight to Survival’s bleed talents as well as the Hunter capstone Unnatural Causes which is sorely lacking with the loss of Serpent Sting.

Hogstrider could be adjusted to essentially grant Deathblow, causing your next Hatchet Toss to deal damage as though enemies struck were below 20% health.

Flamefang Pitch

As we’ve seen numerous times over, including within Survival itself, having dps tied to stationary ground effects doesn’t work out very well. This might not have been as much of an issue, but you also removed the tools we had to keep targets stationary. Tar Trap can no longer root enemies and you removed Binding Shot.

Also consider that given the similarities between Flamefang Pitch and Wildfire Bomb, FFP could easily be a passive interaction between Wildfire Bomb and Tar Trap. Maybe consider having Flamefang Pitch improve the snare effect of Tar Trap and convert your Wildfire Bomb into Flamefang Pitch (increased WFB damage with a different name) against enemies affected by your Tar Trap. You would still have a similar playstyle, but it wouldn’t matter if enemies moved out of the Tar Trap because the damage of Flamefang Pitch would already be active. Enemies who later run through the burning Tar Trap could also incur the Flamefang Pitch DoT.

Grenade Juggler could refund a charge of WFB when used against enemies caught in your Tar Trap (once per trap). Wildfire Imbuement could activate every time you land a WFB on a target caught in your Tar Trap.

Edit: An alternative solution to Flamefang Pitch would be to change it from an active ability that competes for precious gcds at the 1 minute mark to a passive effect attached to Boomstick since you would frequently want to cast them around the same time.

Dragonfire Shell - The final round of your Boomstick fires a Dragonfire Shell, dealing an additional (600% attack power) Fire damage to enemies in front of you. The ground in the blast area is engulfed in flames for 8 seconds, igniting enemies caught in the flames for (400% attack power) Fire dammage over 8 seconds.

This would accomplish the same concept, remove the need for enemies to remain in the ground effect to receive the full DoT, free up an active keybind, and free up a gcd at that crowded 1 minute mark.

Dual Wield

I know a lot of people are excited for dual wield for Survival, but given that the off-hand weapon still does not contribute to ability damage, I imagine 2H will be the more competitive way to play. Please give Survival a loot option that lets the player choose between 2H and dual-wield.

Crowd Control

Looking at other classes in Midnight, Hunter seems wildly shortchanged in the CC department. You could remove Polymorph from the game and Mages would still have more CC than Hunters. Hunter CC needs another pass, because what we currently have in Midnight will not be able to compete.

7 Likes
2

We still have Aspect of the Cheetah and Disengage, we aren’t losing the extreme amount of mobility that you’re giving off.

Consistent Harpoon resets only happened in open world and Mythic+ you won’t feel a difference in raids or PvP.

Even in Mythic+ it was mostly for the focus regen, 85% of our kit is ranged where disengaging out of a mechanic and leaving melee range for half a global isn’t going to break the parse

3

Yes while those are still very useful, Survival still losing a huge fraction of our current mobility.

Terms cuts 10 seconds off of Harpoon, where this is not a large sum of time, over the course of a fight it is a significant amount. Over the course of an M+ its even more. And in PvP its the difference between getting there or not.

Flanking Strike is gone so theres another 15 yards to stay connected every 30 seconds.

CA was 40 every minute with talents and now Takedown is 20 every 2 minutes.

Thats 3/5 of our mobility aspects messed with or removed altogether.

I think hes right.

I mean Warriors even get 30 rage for free without the need to spend a talent point.

Fully buffed They can get 4 charges off and gain 120 rage about the same time it takes us to get our 2nd Harpoon off without Terms of Engagement.

I dont know about you but I tend to use Disengage as Engage more often then not, just to keep up.

I dont want apples to apples here, but man those 15 seconds off, a second charge, a reset, … choose any one of those without needing to spend a talent point and it would go a long way.

And thats just for Harpoon!

Other alternatives would be unpruning Flanking Strike and have talents that support decent cooldown reduction of it through proper rotations.

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Man, all you do is disagree with EVERYONE! What are you a one horse tinkerer or something?! Gosh. I can’t take all this ARGUING!! /endsarcasm

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ashraelan is just a contrarian that needs to argue at all times :pensive_face:

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Actually i think thats you lol

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I’ll concede reduced CD helps, I was under the impression it was just focus generation and reset on kill

Takedown base is 1.5m CD reduced by 30secs via talent so it’s still effectively a 1min CD

Comparing Survival mobility to other melee is also not a strong argument. Warrior/rogue for example doesn’t have 3/4 their kit ranged dps they HAVE to stick on you to dps where SV can still WFB, KC, and even Aspect of the Eagle to effectively use all the rotation from ranged.

8

These are fair points to add.

Considering we only have 1 melee ability going into Midnight, might as well change that to cobra shot and call it a day! Mobility needs removed entirely!

As funny as this is and I know youre just having fun, next time dont add the part of my post where I say ‘I think he’s right’ xD

As for you.
Read the part where I literally say ‘I think he’s right’…

I like you, if I had the money I would pay for your sub for this month.

9

You absolutely feel this in pvp, the 10 second cd loss is also very felt.

2 Likes
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Sign to spend more time working less time yapping on the forums

11

1000% feel this in BGs. Such a fun talent jumping all over the battlefield.

Now we just stand around and throw bombs and shotgun people.

Without Harpoon reset and Scatter, it really hurts us.

2 Likes
12

Just thinking that this could be streamlined even more.

When being able to place traps at a distance was first introduced, we were given a toggle effect called Trap Launcher. Activating it allowed us to place our traps at range as we do now, while deactivating it caused us to simply place our traps at our feet as we had done before.

I think bringing back the Trap Launcher toggle could be a great way to not only streamline Flamefang Pitch, but also our CC. We can already toss our traps to a ranged location without the need of a Launcher, but the Trap Launcher toggle could let us choose between tossing traps to a location with the reticle placement (inactive) or firing a trap directly at a target (active) for guaranteed success.

The important part pertaining to the above suggestion for Flamefang Pitch is that Tar Trap could be fired at a target with a single key press, removing altogether the reticle placement that many players find so cumbersome.

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Would rather not have that be a thing with our cc traps, that would be too strong.

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the biggest problem with FFP is that it’s a static ground aoe. casting it on a target would be convenient, but it’s still a static ground aoe

15

What I’m suggesting would resolve this issue. Think of Flamefang Pitch as just a buffed Wildfire Bomb against enemies in your Tar Trap.

You would throw your Tar Trap and follow up with Wildfire Bomb. Instead of being dealt Wildfire Bomb damage, enemies affected by Tar Trap would be dealt Flamefang Pitch damage. Mechanically, it would still function the same as Wildfire Bomb, with the initial explosion followed by a DoT, but the damage would be significantly increased and would be called Flamefang Pitch for the sake of tracking dps output of the talent.

With that resolved, we could also include a modified version of the ground effect where instead of requiring enemies to stay within the effect to deal continued damage, any enemies who pass through the burning Tar Trap would incur the DoT portion from Flamefang Pitch which would continue to tick whether they stay in or move out of the Tar Trap.

If your tank was pulling several groups while continuing to move forward you could hit the lead group with Tar Trap and Wildfire Bomb. The lead group would be dealt the initial explosion and DoT portion of Wildfire Bomb, which would be dealt as Flamefang Pitch since they are within your Tar Trap effect. The Tar Trap would continue to burn for the duration of its effect, so even though straggling groups may not have received damage from the initial explosion, they would incur the Flamefang Pitch DoT as they pass through the burning Tar Trap.

A fair point at face value, but with the amount of CC Hunters have lost, I’m not so sure it would be. The loss of Tar Trap root, Scatter Shot, Hi-Explosive Shot, and drastically reduced access to Harpoon are going to be devastating.

No other CC in the game has the potential to fail as hard as Freezing Trap. With the loss of all these supporting tools to ensure its success, being able to fire a trap directly at a target seems reasonable.

16

And introduce more issues, as instead of just having one button do damage we would need to use tar trap then an entirely different ability. They tried this with Soulforged Embers https://www.wowhead.com/spell=331197/soulforge-embers and almost nobody liked it, as it’s just extra cumbersome.

furthermore…why would we need two separate WFB buttons? it would be better to just entirely replace the concept of FFP.

17

They also took away the our pet last stand ability, so you can no longer swap pets and use it during turtle shell. This was important for holding points in Battle Ground Blitz.

We were gaining one new defensive with the aspect of the cheetah buff, however this is no longer the case. On the latest beta the dodge from aspect of the cheetah has been removed.

With traps, roots, longer cooldown harpoon, removed pet skills, less range on abilities and less ranged abilities survival is losing nearly 6-7 utilities for PvP while only gaining CDR on Feign Death and Exhilaration.

Meanwhile many other classes have somehow gained utility or powerful utility to offset any loss. And many other remain barely changed.

This is a crushing blow to our PvP viability.

18

You would use Tar Trap and then Wildfire Bomb, which you would already have on your action bar.

A lot of people liked this interaction. What they didn’t like, not unlike what we’re currently lined up for with Blizzard’s version of Flamefang Pitch, was having to deal with the reticle placement in combat.

You would have 1 WFB keybind and 1 Tar Trap keybind as we do now, which is less than having 1 WFB, 1 Tar Trap, and 1 FFP.

My suggestion keeps Blizzard’s intended concept, does so without introducing an extra ability to keybind by having 2 existing abilities interact for improved functionality, and not only smooths out the application of their intended concept, but Hunter CC as a whole.

And perhaps they will. But in the event that they don’t agree with you on that notion, it might be worthwhile to consider ways to improve what they want us to have.

19

Yes, I know, I’m saying they tried this already and nobody liked it.

No they didn’t, almost all the feedback in Shadowlands was how annoying that legendary was to use because you needed to use an extra button and sacrifice utility for a rotational DPS ability

People do not like using utility as a part of their DPS rotation

20

This doesn’t align with their goal of reducing bloated globals. Like how they’re adding Bloodshed as a passive to Bestial Wrath. Also using utility as a dps skill doesn’t feel good, you lose having that utility on demand

1 Like