Its either comparing dungeon runs all day,every day to mythic raiding OR acknowledging that one weekly run doesn’t realistically award mythic raid loot.
You can’t argue both claims at the same time–they are mutually exclusive. One weekly run awards a single 410 on a weekly lockout that can forge higher. The loot inside a spammable dungeon run is only 400 and while it can forge, only at a lower level, and has to be split among 5 players (and 16slots per player). You also have to already be at or above 400 average ilvl to form a group capable of spamming 10s like that anyway.
Its very difficult to gear past 415 like this which is why literally not even one person arguing how easy this is to do has a character to show you they did it on. Not a single one has a dungeon geared to on over 415 and the one 416 (the pathetic highest example) was geared in a raid. Let this facts sink in.
You stop doing normal 5 mans. They become worthless. I don’t hear people screaming about that.
5 man heroic. Same thing. Where’s the out cries of foul over them being worthless.
You out grow normal level raids. Heroic level raids.
Mystics 5 man shouldn’t be good for life. You should out grow them.
You want raid level year then Mystic 5 mans should lock out just like raids. 1 run a week. Do away with the loot chest. You don’t get that raiding you shouldn’t get it doing 5 man mystic either.
You want to spam run Mystic 5s and out gear Mystic raid in 2 days that shouldn’t happen. That’s poor game design.
Mystic 5s should drop gear on par with normal raids. That way it does give you a leg up. You can skip normal and do heroic. You shouldn’t let you skip Raiding all together and have the best gear in the game.
Why Blizzard thought this was a good idea ever was beyond stupid.
Just like… the majority of the playerbase struggles to raid Heroic?
Hot Tip: Most of the playerbase is bad.
Sorry, but when the primary progression in the game is your character’s power, it does in fact matter what other people have, and the reward schemes of various forms of content have a direct impact on how many people want to do that content.
I do in fact think BfA has too much high ilvl freebie loot for faceroll content. I wouldn’t say to remove all of it, but it should be reduced a bit.
As I said, both forms of content are hard for most players.
You admitted above that you were in those keys for the free loot, you make zero sense. None. You are literally against the very thing you were all for doing?
Reality, whether or not it’s higher or lower, I will be mythic geared and clearing and pushing keys and never touch anything past the first boss in a mythic raid as long as keys exist.
…and some lucky guy that plays this game for fun is still going to get an amazing TF piece of gear I want and will never have and it won’t effect me because I don’t care and it doesn’t effect my gameplay what so ever.
I guess at the end of the day you gotta ask yourself why it bugs you so much that someone else has gear in a game? Why someone you will never encounter nor play with and their gear has got ya down that bad. The majority of us will never having cutting edge and to me that’s better than any piece of gear.
You can’t outgear a mythic raid with mythic dungeons. It’s not even possible! I just looked at two more profiles and unsurprisingly their highest m+ gear are warforged 410s. They do have some 415s that came from heroics, they have some 420 vendor pieces and one of them has a 420 raid piece. Equipped ilvl? 411!
Its too hilarious to not keep looking at the most vocal complainers in this thread and see their own gearing undermining their arguments.
Seriously, try it. Compare the strongest opinionated players against my explanations of their gear and you’ll earn a tremendous belly laugh for your effort.
That’s called a strawman. That’s not what I said. It was also a false equivalency. We’re talking about a game. Not real life. Not pay for a job. Get a real argument and get back to me.
Because your accomplishment doesn’t necessitate you being 30+ ilvl above everyone else. It’s perfectly fine the way it is. You have an overall ~5 ilvl advantage over people doing heroic/M10+ weekly. If that’s not enough of an advantage for you too bad.
So often I see complaints on the forums from “mythic raiders” that you are being victimized by casuals. I never heard before that casuals are keeping you from gearing your alts.
Your alts don’t deserve mythic gear either. Go play them instead of demanding that casuals stop being mean to you.
If Mystic + gave no gear there’d be no one running them. People do it for the gear.
Why would you run pretty much the same 5 man day after day. Skipping 1/2 the dungeon on your way to boss if you want a challenge?
You want to hurry through get your gear and be done.
Didn’t Blizzard have challenge mode Dungeons once? They failed why? No gear. People didn’t want the challenge. They wanted their gear. People told Blizzard they didn’t want hard they wanted gear by not doing them.
If you want the challenge keep your gear under the level of content. Then you’ll be challenged:)
We know you wouldn’t. Why? Because you are running it for the gear and nothing else.
You have been told by many in this thread that it happens every time we have a new season. The rewards have always remained capped until new raid is released and then they go up. They test test the higher rewards on the PTR and then drop them for the release candidate version every time.
Why are you still trying to say otherwise.
Blizzard are way to busy at the moment to reply to every thread made on the PTR, especially ones that ask questions that people really should know the answer to
You know what? I hear you. And you’ve changed my stance a bit.
Personally I think they should return tier to raids so there’s at least a proper incentive to do them. Because in my opinion the Azerite traits have been pretty flat. As well as trinkets but that’s a non related issue.
There is a lot of power to M+ though. It’s spammable, no lockouts, and with forging you can definitely get some strong pieces. I’m wondering if there’s a way to even it out ilvl wise based on how many people are clearing high keys and how high they actually go based on IO.
Thats only 10 ilvls above heroic. It sounds like TF is probably the big issue then.
I suggest two levels of caches. One at 10 for heroic raid ilvl and one higher (maybe a 15 or a 20 I dunno) for mythic ilvl cache. No forging in between. I will run out of reasons to do M+ a lot faster, but I do think M+ deserves its loot to go up for those who put in the work to do high keys.
I think you have fixed the problem with what you have just said. Now just get Blizz to fix it and we are good.
Bringing back tier makes raiding more desirable, people will actually want to do it because there is something in there, taking out tier (in my humble opinion) is one of the worst things they did.
Do I know I can raid? Of course I do, but there isn’t much in there for me to even want to, I know I can go push some keys and get the same type of gear, but it’s not like I’m not working for it and that’s where it gets a bit offensive when people come in here with these attitudes as if the majority of us are just going in 10’s and failing them who cares, free gear! Most people I know actually do work hard and try and use strategies etc the same as a raid in keys. I feel bad for anyone that isn’t in an organized group doing them because they aren’t easy. I struggled healing an 11 Freehold on an alt last night, in an unorganized group, with amazing dps and one bad tank and was healing 40k and up (which I see mythic raiders doing).
By no means I am comparing a 10 key to a Mythic Jaina kill but have you ever done a 16 Kings Rest on a Tyrannical, Teeming, Volcanic and Reaping week? We busted our arses for that key, it took us foreverrr to even get it in time let alone get that key to drop for us, it felt so good to see that achievement pop up on my screen, I could have cared less about the gear. Now I’m not bragging about a 16 key but to me that was my personal actual “hard” to others ez pz. To see someone say it’s brainless and painless content, is ridiculous to me and clearly they aren’t seeing the bigger picture and just would rather think everyone is just failing keys for free gear.
I also understand this thread was initially about 10’s but who are we to say that people doing 10’s don’t have the same struggle we had in there. Everyone’s struggle isn’t the same and this gear issue doesn’t just happen in keys, it’s happening everywhere. I know someone running around with a 420 TF trinket from a world boss, a world boss!
This has been something most of us that aren’t raiders have been doing since keys have been a thing. I get some people hate keys but there is a place for people who dislike PvP and dislike Raiding and it’s been in the keys. I raided in Legion and I did it for the tier, I was on a raid team.
I am on a raid team now but keys are where my heart is. Gear isn’t going to stop me from getting in groups because I could heal right next to the best of them. When you start messing with keys you really start taking down a large group of people who have found their niche in a game they otherwise wouldn’t and like I said, most of the people commenting in this thread aren’t even doing this content or 10 keys to boot!
I do agree with you and finding some sort of balance would be nice. I just worry about me, myself and I and don’t understand why people get so upset about how someone else is playing the darn game.
My main is my druid if you want to see actual raid kills and what I was trying to say is that with m+ it was possible to keep the other two pretty evenly geared without needing to raid which is what I see as a problem.
I had them both geared higher than people who raided and did not do m+ for a while too.
I think we are getting our messages crossed in terms of what we expect gear wise too. I think m+ should get you ready for mythic not make it almost redundant.
At the start of the tier when we started on mythic everyone had an ilvl if under 400 which was fine to start prog with. By the time my guildies were 404/410 my pally and monk were right there with them. That is what I see as the problem.
The issue is not whether I understand your point, or whether you really do raid, or whether you really do Mythic+ content–the issue is that I disagree with your conclusion that 404, 410, and 416 are all “right there” with one another.
The difference between 404 and 410 is 96 itemization “points” (once again folks, the math is: 410-406=6 ilvl difference. 6 x 16 (16 ilvls are required for a 1 ilvl increase on your paper character) = 96.
The difference between 410 and 416 is also 96 itemization points, but as you know 415s, 420s, and 425s are so much more difficult to obtain in order to realize those 96 points of difference that 404 to 410 is much easier to do than 410 to 416.
The difference between your 404 and 416 is 192 gear ilvls! You can parse it out however is best for you, whether it’s three pieces dropping at 425 or 8 pieces dropping at 410 or whatever the point remains the same: everyone here is playing some portion of the game and knows what I’m describing is difficult to obtain.
It’s simply false to claim loot rains from the skies in M+ at the mythic raider level. When it does drop, it’s more often than not a useless or repeat piece. When it does drop, it’s extremely unlikely to forge at all and you have to grind them hourly and daily in order to instigate those procs.
Everyone reading this should be nodding their heads by now because you all know full well who you would take if you were considering a 404, a 410, and a 416. It wouldn’t even be a close consideration. You have three toons who are literally at three different tiers: normal, heroic, and mythic.
In essence, you have a normal tier toon who was geared through M+, a heroic tier toon who was geared through M+, and a mythic raider who was geared through M+ at the end of the season.
I don’t need to belabor the point regarding the differences in gear itemization between raids, dungeons, and world content. You know what it is because you’ve done the content from those places. It’s simply inaccurate to equate your mythic+ 404 to 404 mythic raider anyway and I think you know that.
Yes I agree with pretty much everything to said with itemisation. I guess I’m not so much talking about now as 3 weeks into bod when they were equal to raiders in my guild at the time.
The difference being that we’re all playing video games. Nothing special or hard about wasting time and mashing keys on a keyboard in a certain order. Just because you have more time to waste than others, doesn’t mean your rewards will be better.
Lets not get wild by trying to compare real work with a child’s game.
To be fair they’re working (your word not mine) for it. It may not be your personal opinion on what work is, but they’re nevertheless working towards it. They put in time and effort like anyone else and are rewarded for it.
Until you make your own game/rules your opinion isn’t law. You can’t undermine others accomplishments just because you think what they’re doing compared to your personal expectations is easy.
Because your expectations are all opinion based and that’s why it’s hard for others to understand.
To you it’s not, but I’d wager plenty of people think the effort they’re putting into higher keys is equivalent. Again, your personal opinion on what you consider to be equivalent is just that, an opinion.
Why do you feel the need to stare at players standing next to you? Just some nobody that you’ll probably never interact with.
So why are you so worried about their presence nearby, when you’re clearly the better player?
You keep using this word, but I wonder if you actually understand the main purpose of gaming for most people. If I wanted a second job I’d go get one, your issue seems to be that you consider effort/reward in this game to be a second job. I personally consider this a hobby and a break from reality. I understand there are those out there like yourself that can’t differentiate between work and fun, nevertheless you shouldn’t force your unhealthy work obsession onto others who didn’t ask for it.
Just try to enjoy your game and let the rest of us do the same. If it’s too much to handle that someone else is getting gear kinda close to your level, you could simply quit and find another game that makes you happy instead.
Usually when a product makes me unhappy I quit using it over trying to force everyone around me to diminish their own happiness because I’m unhappy. It seems pretty selfish to expect everyone around you to change over a YOU problem.
Edit
Also I gotta ask.
Are you just crusading for mythic players or do you actually believe yourself to be one? genuinely curious as I can’t seem to find any proof that you’d need to worry about others standing near you when you’re not a mythic raider.
Again, curious so please don’t be offended. I honestly wish to know why you have such a strong opinion on something you don’t participate in or are apart of?
![:man_facepalming:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/man_facepalming.png?v=6" ":man_facepalming:")