I hear so many people on the forums now a days ask for nerfs. With how slow the majority of the meta is, should we not be asking for buffs for the underperforming specs to try and make the pace of arena higher?
I for sure understand that destro, sin, Fire mage, rdruid, etc are OP at the moment. What I’m suggesting is rather than bringing them down to all the other specs levels, would it not be better to bring everyone else up to their levels?
Obviously things will need to be fined tuned to be nerfed and buffed, but this is just a general concept idea I’m throwing out. I just constantly see NERF NERF NERF. Very few “buff” threads.
I really hate when people ask this sort of thing. It’s clearly more logical to nerf 4 outliers than buff the other twenty something specs that aren’t tanks.
And nerfs should include defensive capabilities (azzy, pve trinkets) that make the meta slow so it’s irrelevant regardless.
The problem is not just those specs or the trinkets themselves though. Those specs are good because they have very high sustained damage. Most games in this meta seem to drag on even if those specs are not involved. Even with nerfing the tankyness of the specs the games would still go on long from my pov. Considering many other specs are trash: enhance, mm, outlaw etc it seems far better to give other specs the sustained or even burst they are lacking so that the meta can pick up.
Nerfing the few OP specs from what I have seen will still leave the meta extremely slow and boring, exactly like it already is, just with other specs in the spotlight rather than the current op specs.
I don’t know how you think nerfing all the dumb junk keeping everyone alive would have zero impact. It just doesn’t make sense. Yes of course the meta would shift, that’s the point.
And if you don’t believe me just level sync down to the 110 bracket and do a few BG’s, it feels infinitely better to play with all the azerite traits, items, and azerite abilities disabled.
having everything equal but still just as slow paced is not much better, and doesnt fix the root of the problems with this expac. I understand where you are coming from, and it would certainly be easier to fix the 4 outlier specs, but just because it is easier does not mean that it will be better in the long run. I agree that some of the azerite traits are making people a bit tankier, but after the 75% nerf to the 3rd tier abilities, they arent nearly as impactful as before.
All I’m saying is we have nerfed, and nerfed, and nerfed specs the entire expac, with a few exceptions. It would only make sense that something else be tried imo. If everything is nerfed so that it starts doing 20 dps per second nothing will die. Obviously that is extreme and will never happen, but it still shows my point haha.
An overall nerf to tankyness would be a good start, but i do not think that fixes some of the underlying issues with most specs
yea how i think of it is kinda like the mop philosophy. if everyone is OP then no one is. Obviously thats an oversimplification, but you get the picture.
yea thats the right track, but obviously there are some specs that SHOULD be more cd oriented than others, and some specs that should be more sustain oriented than others.
Good example for a CD oriented spec: sub rogue. Definately a class that is supposed to have less sustained than other classes and specs, but mostly dangerous during the “goes”
good example for sustain oriented spec: affliction lock. the spec obviously has burst cd’s, but it mainly has won games in the past expacs due to its insane pressure as a match plays out.
But yea in general I agree with you. Not nit picking you, just making it clear to others the general concepts at play here, and we are obviously not advocating for every spec to just be a sustained damage bot. Just a bit more sustained in general, especially to bring certain specs up to the levels of the current meta specs
I couldnt be bothered writing out the full paragraph explaining in depth so cheers. Fully agree that some specs should be more CD oriented than others like Hpal and sub (as you said). It is simply just very boring when nothing really happens outside cds. Hyperbole i know but both teams could afk between cds and results would probably be the same.
for sure i understand that. again was just adding more details so those that come in here and take things more literally understand what we really mean
This game would be so incredibly boring if every class was as tanky as destros/fire/dks/dh etc.
Buffing the weak vs nerfing the strong is fine when it’s based around offense. Hitting peoples offense is silly. But buffing everyones defense is also silly.
Being able to kill your opponents is vastly more fun than hardly ever having win conditions on top of the fact that it also makes it possible to beat hard matchups.
I would like to see shaman reworked from being an unkillable god in ghost wolf before it gets any type of buff. The class literally does not cast. I run succubus vs it and get more worth out of it using seduce and having a slow. I’m sure no shaman enjoys the ridiculousness that is Pack Spirit.
Nah the game is too CD based, it wouldn’t even matter how tanky the classes are now if classes “filler” spells actually did something
Thats my opinion, idc if we bring tanky classes down or bring everyone up.
Really shoving this whole idea im saying make everyone tanky when i’m not or “thats just how it will be”
You yourself have said stamina has outscaled damage every season this expac when I’m just saying make damage onpar or surpass it even doesnt matter at this point
Stamina yes has outscaled damage but there are still multiple changes that need to happen overall. Most of the best specs don’t necessarily have that much better damage than some other specs, it’s just because there’s no punish for their output they can always do the optimal dps rotation
Those have to be adressed (tankiness) AND everyones damage universally would likely have to be buffed because damage from most specs is fairly similar
For example fire mage being able to spam gpy that is effective no matter how high HPs are because of how tanky they are… but assuming they’re punished for that their damage technically also goes down in those scenarios.
So it can’t just be bringing everyone to the strong level. The situation is much more complicated than that. Most specs have fine damage, they just have a point that they get outpressured in comparison to the tankier specs because they’ll lose trades.
The top specs legitimately need to be massively squishier for any valuable change to occur.