Sounds like a tuning issue, which is going to happen soon.
Also you’d still be using judgement, as mastery effects it. (And greatly as well with the talents)
I like the idea of it being an average CD nuke.
Remove it from wings to increase the FV proc value.
Instead of generating HP it grants divine purpose.
From a pvp stand point I think it’s a terrible idea. Please don’t take my HOW away please guys .
Less gcds for a bigger bang is usually good for pvp
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It all comes down to Crusader Strike, CSAA, and Templar Strikes. Blizzard needs to decide what direction they’re going there before anything should be done to HoW (or anything else).
CS is designed to be a low prio filler when RNG isn’t on your side. CSAA replaces it beautifully for this reason. On the flip side TS turns the whole rotation on its head because it pushes everything else down.
It causes way too many problems to have a single choice node change the lowest prio ability to the highest prio. This goes beyond balance and falls into how the spec is designed. There are only so many GCDs to work with and making procs like HoW or AoW redundant because the spec lacks the GCDs to use them makes the whole thing feel clunky.
Personally I think cstrikes shouldn’t exist.
Counting auto attacks to avoid over capping hp is bad design
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this btw.
its silly that yall want to get rid of a staple iconic generate ret had for years infavor of something that has always been our filler ability. while also being a staple in pvp for consistent damage and hopo from a far distance
cs and ts is filler. it should be the last thing you press always
hence why csaa is goated with the new 40% zeal buff and rg crusade, it makes the rotation feel more fluid then it ever been with almost 0 downtime if you play your rotation good.
while yes counting autos is cringe, i feel like this isnt a issue until they buff spenders and nerf builders. hopo is such a non resrouce due to the short gap between builders and spenders in terms of damage that you can waste 40+ hopo and still parse high purple. (back then you would be grey if you wasted that ,much hopo) so ultimately. until they fix spender damage, there really is no point to focus on hopo economy in any way shape or form
Cs had been an issue in the past, but also in the past we where absolutely need to he in melee for most of our skill use.
Comparing ret of today (pseudo range now) with ret of yesterday (strictly melee with 2 range abilities) is redundant, specially since ts/cs being the hardest skills to execute, which warrants them to be stronger then our other builders (which is ranged) except maybe HoW which also has requirements to use other then being in 20/40 yard range. Even cssa is easier to use then cs/ts since you don’t even need to press a button to use it.
We need more things to make us want to close that gap in all forms of content. Not make those things so weak we can safely ignore them with 0 consequences.
Also tuning is not even done yet. So talking about numbers is pointless.
Even though i am a huge Crusading Strikes stan, i do believe the talent is causing more issues than it solves. Namely too much HoPo generation and too many Blessing of Dawn procs. The result is that HoPo spenders have to hit like wet noodles. Which in turn greatly reduces the skill expression of the spec. Because HoPo doesn’t mattter.
Yeah, its a tuning issue. But one that only really affect Templar, which makes it harder to solve. Maybe removing the extra Greater Judgment debuffs Templar generates would fix it. Idk.
Had i a magic wand i would probably create a “true” Holystrike/Radiant build(s). Something akin to Enh Shamans Storm vs. Elemental build. I.e having a completely different playstyle rather than just the flavor text in the combat logs we have going on now.
Maybe make it a sword vs. hammer build instead. Since all of our “hammer” abilites are already ranged.
Remove Jurisdiction and make FV 20 yard range without the talent. Then buff Justicar’s Vengeance to be on par with FV or even a bit stronger to account for no HoW procs.
Blade of Justice already does too much, so move Expurgation into HoW and/or Judgment.
Rename Hammer of Light to Sword of Light (animation doesn’t even need to change since it’s just a big boom)
Remove Crusading Strikes and turn it into a weapon imbue with the exact same effect (Seal of something), so the melee Sword build actually has buttons to press.
Add a new talent that causes DoTs to reduces the cooldown of Judgment and/or HoW by X sec. Choice node with Art of War. Maybe Penitence?
Axe Searing Light and add… something that complement a Hammer/DoT build. Maybe just “Holy Rend”.
Would obviously need a lot more work than this, but now we have two distinct builds.
Sword/Holystrike (Melee Brawler build)
-
Focuses on:
- Crusader Strike/Templar Strike (CS does Holystrike damage baseline. No DoT on TS)
- Blade of Justice (12y max range)
- Justicar’s Vengeance (higher damage than FV to make up for no HoW procs)
- ???
–
-
Supplemented by:
- Art of War
- Seal of Command (Crusading Strike weapon Imbue)
Hammer/Radiant (Mid range DoT build)
-
Focuses on:
- Judgment (greater judgment moved to something else)
- Hammer of Wrath (Big dam, long cooldown (15-20sec))
- Searing Light (20y range single target “Radiant Rend”)
- Final Verdict (20y range baseline, procs HoW at a slightly higher rate than live)
–
-
Supplemented by:
- Expurgation (now from Judgment and HoW)
- Penitence (DoT’s reduces Judgment’s remaining cooldown by 0.X sec)
Both builds have access to:
- Wake of Ashes
- Divine Storm
- Final Reck/Execution Sentence
- Consecration
- “Greater Judgment” (through something other than judgment)
This is getting so long i wouldn’t read it myself. So i am going to stop now.
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It would also have to have something to make up for it’s lack of range since FoV will still have range and thus a superior option for most pallies.
We can’t have a melee build without a baseline gap closer and better snares. Which can’t happen because then the range build would have access to it, making us extremely busted
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what are you talking about?? cs and ts arnt “hard to pull off” its literally filler
Use your head.
Judgement, 40 yard range, requirement, facing your opponent and for them to be in sight. Very Easy.
BoJ, 20 yard range, requirement, facing your opponent, for them to be in sight, very easy.
HoW 40 yard range, requirement, facing your opponent, for them to be in sight, a proc from FV (another easy skill to pull off since it has range) or have wings activated, or enemy below 35% health. Easy
ts melee range. Requirement, standing within 5 yards to the target, In pvp, difficult due to lack of gap closures. Pve mild difficulty unless movement required, pvp hard.
Cssa, melee range, passive. Requirement, be in 5 yards of the target for it to automatically apply. Easier to pull off then ts/cs since they require interaction. Almost completely ignored in pvp. Pve medium (easier then ts/cs). Pvp as hard as auto attacking with no gap closure.
Cs, melee range. Requirement, 5 yards of target. In pvp, difficulty rises due to lack of gap closure, also too weak to matter much in pvp unless you have a free global. Historically as weak as auto swing. Pve. Difficulty; pve medium unless im high movement fights. Pvp, hard, but so weak we can live without it in pvp.
Wake of ashes; requirement; 16 yards range and facing your opponent. Does not require a target to do damage. Mid-length cd justifies it’s damage. But otherwise the easiest skill to pull of off the builders since it is practically mindless.
we play two incredibly different games and it shows
Sorry, truth hurts.
I’d rather not go back to having 1-2 seconds of downtime every 20~ seconds or so. If our dps is balanced around having to use them always to fill our gcd’s, so all gcd’s always covered, then what does it matter?
Just prioritize them accordingly, Judgment for the debuff (and extra dmg with the current set bonuses) and HoW for dmg when Judge is on cd.
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Being gcd locked ain’t fun
It’s better than having dead gcd’s.
And no, it’s not for cleansing/healing, you’ll rarely get a dead gcd when you need to cleanse/heal so it’s irrelevant.
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Being GCD locked is fine until you start adding procs because procs need somewhere to be spent. If a class is to be GCD locked then it needs to not have procs. If a class is to have procs to react to then it needs open GCDs to spend them.
The only exception to this is if a class has a very low damage filler that can be dropped in lieu of the procs.
Yeah you’re right, but even so, being gcd locked leaves too much room for error when messing up your rhythm can heavily impact dps to often.
Plus, not having any procs as bland as all hell… You need procs to keep the spec engaging
Being gcd starved is bad too, you need a balance