How would you guys feel about this?
HoW just feels like bloat to me ever since it’s dmg is a shell of its former self before Legion.
Season 2 DF felt great with the set bonus but now it’s just meh.
Now with Templar strikes making a come back I find very little opportunities to use HoW even during wings unless I’m not in melee range.
HoW just feels bland compared to all the other generators.
So how would players feel if they merged judge and HoW and have it function similar to DH spells when they cast meta.
So essentially when in wings or in execute range, Judgement would turn into HoW.
It’d retain all of its judgement benefits and talents, but deal more dmg, quicker CD, and generate one additional HP.
3 Likes
Tbh it does feel crazy to have basiclaly 4 ranged throw abilities that do all of our damage. But biy i do love getting a KB in arena throwing my electric hammer lol
The issue for me is that HoW feels redundant.
Like if it did something else, then great. But it doesn’t…
And with Templar strikes now it feels like bloat.
2 Likes
Completely agree here.
Judgment/Hammer of Wrath should have been permanently merged together with the capstone talent “Vengeful Wrath”
Only when Avenging wrath is active plus make HoW apply judgement bellow 35%.
I am fine with HoW existing as an execute only. But if we cannot go back to it’s original intent of it being a strong execute ability that can only be used at 35% health remaining, then it is for the best it gets merged to judgement.
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If you did this then you’d generate less holy power over the course of a fight. Because when HoW and judgement are on cooldowns you have both of their cooldowns recovering at the same time.
You could reduce the cooldown of judgement or just give ret a tuning pass after the change.
For holy these two spells have similar but different functions for healing. But again that’s nothing tuning can’t fix.
But you could also say that BoJ could be merged with judgement either though. But it does seem farther from judgement then HoW.
That would be the best way to merge them.
Since BFA I’ve always set up my mouse to cast CS on button 1 but if HoW was available, it would take priority over it.
Since they basically did the same thing, only, HoW was stronger.
It changed a bit when CD started to cleave but the CSAA option made this a non-concern.
With the changes to TS, I now feel like I don’t want to use it as much as I did since it also lost all cleave/aoe potential aside from maybe procing searing light through mastery.
If anything should die it’s cstrikes
Counting auto attacks to not over cap HP isn’t fun
2 Likes
Blizzard did play around with getting rid of HoW, or maybe it was Judgment, i forget. In the first/earliest public iteration of the Ret rework, one of the capstone talents merged HoW and Judgment into one ability.
I assume they didn’t go through with it because Ret was losing a lot of buttons in the rework (6-7) and felt a bit anemic as a result.
Well if TS remains godly then they might have to look into it again, cuz even without VM I just don’t press HoW that often, and that’s weird given that it’s our execute
It can’t even cleave anymore… While boj, judge, and TS can all cleave, even friggin FV cleaves now.
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Don’t quote me on this, but i’ve seen multiple people here say you should be dropping Judgment from the rotation instead of HoW if you are running TS. But i am not sure if that’s with or without all of the hero talents.
How? HoW doesn’t have greater judgement
If hp generation is an issue they could easily bake it into anothet ability baseline for free. Like maybe boj can have a 2 ho reward baseline for example.
Although from what i have been hearing, some builds already have a surplus of hp and close to having a gcd capped rotation, so i dunno if it’s really a big issue.
Judgement is too important to drop. It grants greater judgement debuff to those it hits. That is a free 20% extra damage for our spenders, it is even more important with ds builds with it’s 2 stack talent.
I’d rather they remove Vanguard’s Momentum, to slow down the Holy Power generation, and changed Vengeful Wrath into something more of a Necrolord’s Hammer ability.
My “wave the magic wand” approach would be:
Crusader Strike:
- Crusading Strikes vs Fires of Justice (Holyfire/Radiant)
Blade of Justice:
- Blade of Vengeance (Holyfire/Radiant) vs Templar Strikes (Holy)
- To keep in line Templar = Holy/Holystrike
Judgement:
- Improved Judgement removed
- Boundless Judgement is fine
Hammer of Wrath:
- Cooldown increased to 12-20 sec
- Gives more value to HoW procs + Wings giving access to HoW
- Vanguard’s Momentum removed
- Reducing HP generation = stronger finishers
- Vengeful Wrath (+SotC/Empyrean Legacy) changed to Necrolord type effect
Templar’s Verdict:
- Final Verdict vs Justicar’s Vengeance
- Revamped and made Capstones
Divine Storm:
- Tempest of the Lightbringer vs Holy Flames
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Vangaurd is already being removed. No more 4 hp spenders 4 u
Nah, Vanguard’s Momentum, not Vanguards of Justice.
Gives 2 charges of HoW and generates 1 extra HP when used vs mobs below 20%.
That’s always been the talent I felt made HoW into a copy of Judgement. Always been poorly designed in terms of giving spells their own identity, imo.
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Ah that is right. My bad. I personally skip that one in favor of other talents.
Your right on this one. They should remove it indeed.
They should put something there to make cons more unique and useful for rets.
Maybe something like “BoJ now consecrates the targets feet, putting them on holy fire and purifying the ground they stand on, moving with the target for x amount of time, it also increases cons damage by 20% or more”
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On live you want to use Judgment to proc our S3/S4 set bonus. But that’s going away soon and HoW (at least on the current beta build) does about the same amount of damage as Judgment+20% of a HoPo spenders damage. Judgment is only a dps gain if you don’t waste any of the greater judgement debuffs. Which as Templar you do a lot. Judgment also doesn’t add any duration to Shake the Heavens.
Under 35% with Vengeful Wrath, HoW greatly out damages Judgment+debuff. So in execute range you’d basically only use Judgment right before Hammer of Light.