Megathread: The Other Half of the Dragon Fantasy - DRAKONIDS

Dragons lay eggs. By the time the young hatch they can eat on their own.

Drakonid are ascended mortals. Not a natural species. Granted, the drakonid of the Dragon Isles are uplifted tarasek, but they have historically originated from a variety of humanoid species, be they reptilian or mammalian.

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But yeah, point being, they can inherit traits of the original species. Like breasts. As seen in official art.

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Hence:

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Drakonids in a vacuum are fine, but they shouldn’t take away any potential classes from the Dracthyr. If there’s room enough for Dwarf Warriors and Gnome Warriors side-by-side, then there’s room for Drakonid and Dracthyr Warriors side-by-side as well.

Plus, there’s no reason they couldn’t expand Dracthyr BTs to have bulkier options, which Drakonids might endanger.

I’d support Drakonids as long as Dracthyr get equivalent development and options afforded to them.

If we get Drakonid for the non-Evoker classes, there is no reason for anything other than Dracthyr Evokers.

That’s like saying ‘we have Dwarven warriors, why bother with Gnome warriors’. We know that not all Dracthyr are Evokers. So it makes no sense to lock them to a singular class when we know they pursue different paths.

I don’t think you’re making a good case, here. Gnomes are defined by a lack of strength. Lacking Warriors would make a lot of sense for them in establishing the race’s fantasy. Especially when Dwarf Warriors exist to fulfill the “short warrior” fantasy without compromising their race’s integrity.

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For Dragonkind.

:dragon:

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Except notice how Gnomish fantasy isn’t diluted by the presence of Warriors; they are rare yes, but those that are present are as committed to the cause as any other race’s Warriors. When you think Gnome, you don’t think ‘hulking berserker’, you probably think ‘eccentric technobabbling mage’. Which means the ‘fantasy’ remains intact, and those embracing Warrior as their class are standouts among their people, maybe thought of as aberrations, maybe thought of as outcasts, maybe even thought of as failures.

That’s what you’re not seeming to grok; the presence of standouts from the stereotype does not harm the ‘racial fantasy’ in the least. Instead, it reinforces it.

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Allowing a Gnome to be a Tinker reinforces the racial fantasy. Allowing them to be a Warrior does not. It is easiest to define a culture by defining what it is not. Disallowing Warriors would send a clear message that this is not a race that is all about martial strength.

I can see that you do understand this, though. Admitting that these “aberrations” detract from the racial fantasy isn’t something I’d ever thought to hear from you. Although, I don’t think you understand how you’ve just undermined your entire manifesto by laying it out like that.

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When did I say it detracted from the fantasy? A Gnome Warrior reinforces the fantasy.

Right there. :slight_smile: Granted, you went on to try to contort the point into saying that hulking Gnome berserkers everywhere somehow reinforces that they should be Mages (???), but you did need to first admit that class selection can be used to reinforce cultural identity. Bravo!

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It took you nearly a month to think of that comeback? Do better, my guy,

Yes. It reinforces the culture to have a Gnome Warrior because they’re so at-odds with their home people. Just like a Human Warlock reinforces Humanity’s dedication and piousness to the Light by completely rejecting it themselves. Culture is meant to have influence on, but not total control, over the outcome of those originating from it. Some will embrace their culture and become what their people are best known for (Gnome Mages, Human Paladins) other individuals will utterly reject the norms their culture has set before them and go their own path, knowing they isolate themselves from their ‘home’ (Gnome Warriors, Human Warlocks).

You’re not looking for ‘cultural identity’, you’re looking to be spoonfed what to think. To have every member of a race be a xerox copy of one another, capable of being completely summed up, backstory and all, with a mere glance.

I take breaks from the forum. :slight_smile: No reason to get snide.

And there’s a difference between having an individual lore character represent a contrast to the cultural norm and having potentially hundreds of thousands of player characters representing that contradiction - very possibly outnumbering the player characters that actually represent that cultural norm.

Lightforged Draenei Warlocks are now a cultural norm. Mag’har Warlocks are a cultural norm. Blood Elf Warriors are a cultural norm. Orc Holy Priests? A cultural norm.

That doesn’t sit right with me in a fantasy universe. In reality? I’m all for DEI. But it doesn’t make sense to apply our cultural initiatives to paint fantasy races with a broad, homogenizing brush.

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That’s the risk of introducing multiplayer and character customization into narrative-heavy settings; you’re going to run into situations where supposedly ‘rare’ individuals become commonplace.

Are all Tauren Engineers just because mine is? Are all Pandaren Mages because mine is? Are all Draenei Warlocks just because a few PCs are? Where’s an ‘acceptable’ limit of ‘outcasts’?

Hell, Druids are supposed to be phenomenally rare and difficult to find, yet throw a stone and you’ll almost certainly hit a Tauren or Night Elf PC that runs Bear Form on raid night. Does that mean every Tauren or Night Elf is a Druid? Weird, when’s Baine or Tyrande gonna shapeshift?

Cultural norms are meant to be backgrounds, not restrictions. No one should have their concept invalidated just because someone else couldn’t come up with a justification for it; if it checks out in the player’s head, then that’s really the only person they have to ask.

EDIT: Hell, what about Druid Engineers? Kinda flies in the face of the entire practice, doesn’t it?

You’re quite right - it would make much more sense for professions to be restricted based on race. :slight_smile:

All that being said… you do realize that you’ve “won,” right? They’ve stated their intent to make all classes available on all races eventually. No need to continue this particular crusade. You chose a hill to die on and survived the battle nevertheless.

Our particular debate is entirely academic. And is entirely based upon differing philosophies. I won’t say that nothing you say can change my mind, because there’s always a chance, but given the talking points that are continually retread upon, it’s not enough to make me budge on this particular opinion.

It’s not a matter of you opening my eyes to reality - I understand your stance completely and still disagree with it. Vehemently. :wink:

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I would definitely play Dracthyr if this was the model.

The point is to have both. :slight_smile: One for the fire-breathing, high-flying, spell-casting fantasy, and the other for the physically-imposing hulking monsters. Both represent a different facet of the dragon fantasy.

Put them together, you have a full dragon.

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For sure, but If the current model was involved I still wouldn’t play it. The current model is to feminine for me.