MC and BWL need to be re-tuned for Classic

[Flech-lightninghoof (Flech)]

Classic isnt out yet, they can still make changes.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

If Method wants to play Classic and clear raids in one day thats cool. I but I am still concerned that the average player and raid will still have so much power MC and BWL will represent “free loot” and the raids wont be rewarding to do.

Given how progression even in the 1.10+ era was still slow and methodical, I’d contend you’re panicking about nothing. Raiding was never ‘free loot’ unless you went in with a group that already cleared it and needed nothing. People still argued over the Azuresong Mageblade going to a Pally when groups were in BWL.

[Flech-lightninghoof (Flech)]

Method currently at 700 wipes on this new boss.

I am sure they will get it down soon! Its really cool to watch the world first race! Its the best WoW esport going!

The early tiers in the old model (Vanilla and BC) are easy or “Normal” difficulty.

I don’t see any real issue with them being that way for Classic. It will encourage more people to raid, and get players geared for AQ when it opens.

Remember that historically Razorgore, Vael and Chromaggus were really hard on guilds. For the health of the casual/social raiding community I am not interested in these bosses being buffed, or gear being nerfed.

The second half of the raid content is genuinely challenging. I think it will be fine and I also anticipate that it will be more difficult than people remember/expect.

I personally I dont think I can stick around for a year paying 15 dollars a month to wait for the raiding content to actually get engaging. I just dont find it fun to crush the content over and over again and get over rewarded for doing very little.

[Eaglesgift-ravenholdt (Eaglesgift)]

If you are only in Classic to raid, well, that’s a personal problem. No reason to change things.

[Yinjing-tichondrius]

The challenges presented by raiding in Classic goes far beyond the boss, just btw.
Consumables, Resist Gear, Coordinating 40 people, etc.
We also don’t know how the encounters will feel. Bare in mind private servers are not identical to vanilla servers.

• I would argue MC is not cleared for the first two weeks.

[Fynìx-sargeras]

like it or not but it is going to be re-tuned, millions of dollars and so much time is going into making classic. They wont release a game where you walk in and and start clearing the content in one week lol.

[Ironsides-stormreaver (Ironsides)]

Being that one of their issues with original Naxx was that less than 1% of the entire population ever saw it, I doubt they’ll be tuning Molten Bore of all places to overcome private server NEETs.

[Dawnspirit-wyrmrest-accord]

I mean this is kind of a fair point. The Vanilla version of Naxx was on par in terms of boss damage with the LK version of Naxx in some cases.

[Hathosse-moknathal]

99% of raids won’t have optimal comps full of optimal specs with optimal itemization using optimal strategies. Most people will experience the things that you mentioned. The only people who won’t are those who have already done MC hundreds of times. Private server players and those who have already mastered Classic’s content will be a small minority.

[Williams-akama (Williams)]

Being that one of their issues with original Naxx was that less than 1% of the entire population ever saw it, I doubt they’ll be tuning Molten Bore of all places to overcome private server NEETs.

I doubt that’s actually true…

Saw it / zoned in… Tons of players and guilds got into naxx, just not everyone cleared it.

Time constraints, guild burn out, TBC apathy, etc… Numerous reasons why players never finished before December 5th 2006.

The whole 1% of the player base is more than likely the % of players who cleared the content, not the number who did some of Naxxramas.

[Kerg-scarlet-crusade]

… Idont want MC and BWL to feel like LFR raids that reward free loot.

Ha. Don’t think you have to worry about that. MC may not be very challenging by hardcore raiding standards, but it is a LOT harder than anything found in faceroll LFR. Like 10 times harder. It takes at least a moderate amount of coordination and strategy, with 40 people all on roughly the same page, and there are gear checks that most guilds won’t be able to meet until several months after release.

[Jomjom-bloodscalp (Jomjom)]

I dont believe I will feel like I will have earned any loot that I might receive in these raids because of how easy these raids will be with 1.12 items if they are not re-tuned.

I’ll take your loot if you don’t want it

[Eaglesgift-ravenholdt (Eaglesgift)]

If raiding is your thing, if you need raids to be cutting edge challenging, if you need raid content to last for months, maybe years, why are you here?

Classic is a game we all played over 15 years ago. It is coming back because many of us enjoyed everything about it - the leveling, alts, professions, pvp, dungeons, BGs, guild comaraderie, questing, exploring, and raiding. But most of us aren’t harboring illusions that it will be just as challenging as it once was. That was then, this is now. I think the potential for a great deal of fun is going to be there for us. But if you focus narrowly on one activity, if you expect it to challenge as it once did, I think you will be sorely disappointed.

[Flech-lightninghoof (Flech)]

If you are only in Classic to raid, well, that’s a personal problem. No reason to change things.

If I dont enjoy raiding with my guild, I think its a problem. Raiding is not the only reason I have played WoW but raiding being good is important.

The challenges presented by raiding in Classic goes far beyond the boss, just btw.
Consumables, Resist Gear, Coordinating 40 people, etc.
We also don’t know how the encounters will feel. Bare in mind private servers are not identical to vanilla servers.

• I would argue MC is not cleared for the first two weeks.

Yes the challenges are not just doing the bosses but I think if gear your using is like having a flask on all the time its taking away alot of the challenge of raids.

[Ironsides-stormreaver (Ironsides)]

If you’re using absolute BiS, you gain 80 damage as a warlock. Mages gain less. That’s barely more than half of a flask and about 40 dps in total. BiS warlocks have about 229 spell damage in 1.1, versus 309 in 1.12 itemization (without 1.12 items).

The official bet: how many weeks upon launch until molten core is cleared

“Please do my work because I can’t do it myself” Ok. I chose warlocks because they are the class most significantly impacted by the itemization changes as they gain the most dps. Warriors, rogues, mages, hunters, etc all gain significantly less dps. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DHC3JY9oaPIH08JMlfBcAWWGTPway52qffa61634oMM/edit#gid=118447046 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z4EX-N359StSAJCRiTpWBbgHt92QDFinthMied9oAC8/edit#gid=1890428553 Gear Compared 1.2: Felcloth Hood, Too…

[Smew-emerald-dream]

If guilds crushing mc/bwl are bored by the release schedule they can always unsub for a while til new phases roll out. Basically the same as many raid- focused retail players. That’s ok

[Eaglesgift-ravenholdt (Eaglesgift)]

Or they can wait until Classic has been out a couple years - then gobble up the ‘content.’

[Pwnbot-frostmourne (Pwnbot)]

I dont think the private server community is going to be very representative of what classic wow is going to be like. Private server communities are much more accustomed to vanilla raiding, as such, even pugs often demand pre-raid BiS, consumables and world buffs before even stepping into MC. I feel like classic will have a lot more players that haven’t played vanilla on private servers (or at least since 04, if at all) than those that have. People are going to need to be taught how to manage their threat, what down ranking is and all sorts of vanilla mechanics that players either dont know about or haven’t experienced for years. That alone is going to make the average/casual player experience significantly harder than what most private servers are used to.

I would prefer they use the original values for boss stats. If the 1.12 items/talents result in the earlier tiers of raiding to be that little bit easier I wouldnt mind. It would be nice to invite my friends who have a full time job and cant farm constant consumables and pre-raid BiS to at least step foot into MC, ZG and Ony.

[Flech-lightninghoof (Flech)]

If raiding is your thing, if you need raids to be cutting edge challenging, if you need raid content to last for months, maybe years, why are you here?

Classic is a game we all played over 15 years ago. It is coming back because many of us enjoyed everything about it - the leveling, alts, professions, pvp, dungeons, BGs, guild comaraderie, questing, exploring, and raiding. But most of us aren’t harboring illusions that it will be just as challenging as it once was. That was then, this is now. I think the potential for a great deal of fun is going to be there for us. But if you focus narrowly on one activity, if you expect it to challenge as it once did, I think you will be sorely disappointed.

As I said in the first post I never expected MC or BWL to be very hard and I dont want MC or BWL to be anywhere close to as hard as a mythic raid. Raiding is not my only reason for playing WoW. But raiding is a very important part of the game.

I do want MC and BWL to have some challenge still there and I do want it to feel rewarding when I get an item from there. I want the raids to feel dangerous

I dont want MC and BWL to get crushed to the point where phases are not experienced and cheese strats are used on a guilds day one in the raid. I dont want MC and BWL to feel like my guild has been farming them for months on our first time in there.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

Classic isnt out yet, they can still make changes.

Not if it means delaying classic wow.