that’s the spirit.
/10char
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Good point.
I will take Word of God saying the Horde is not evil - over wild fan fiction and baseless supposition about the intentions of those women and children.
(Im kidding in case anyone thought I was being serious)
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It’s almost like you didn’t even read what you quoted. Nah, it’s exactly like that.
“certain actions that were up for debate,”
i mean, there is anything else to discuss?
we can debate it that all day, doesn’t change the incredibly evil that the horde has been in BfA.
and don’t even get me started with “sylvanas actions”, a leader is nothing without his/her people.
BFA Horde is being written as evil AND lacking morals.
BFA Alliance is being written as stupid.
Both are being very badly written.
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And on the other side of the coin, some Orcs may want to continue their peaceful shamanic traditions on this world like they did during the days of old, before becoming a weapon of the Legion. Some Forsaken may want to try finding enjoyment out of their unlife, finding purpose in their new existence as semi-immortal indead beings. Some trolls want to live away from greatter troll society, tired of their desire for conquest and constant attempts to relive their glory days of an era that has long since passed.
Then we have Goblins like Gazlowe, who suprisingly do have some standards when it comes to certain business practices. Such as during wartime and neutrality laws, as well as his specific relationship with the Horde. For a goblin, he has a surprisingly complex moral code that doesn’t boil down simply to what makes him the most money like other goblins.
On the other hand we have Blood elves and Nightborne who want to simply continue defending their people and work towards becoming prosperous again, like they were during their prime. Only really fighting out of duty to their people.
The thing about Horde races is that there has always been both a moral and amoral side to them.
For example you have the honorable-type Orcs who show respect towards allies and enemies alike, due to their strict moral code. Orcs like this are Thrall, Saurfang, and Draenosh. Then you have the more ruthless Orcs, who only desire the thrill of battle and the blood of their enemies. Orcs like these include Garrosh, Grom, and Blackhand.
The Alliance doesn’t really posess this quality so much, or at least not in the same depth that is expressed by Horde races.
So to answer the original question, the Horde DOES have morals, however, they are currently displaying the more radical sides of their morality this expansion. Like all Forsaken are like “death to the living!” and the Orcs are all like “kill Alliance!”
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The game literally includes a story line for players to being opposing Sylvanas. But I see you just want to ignore anything that doesn’t support “Horde = evil”
Indeed. This might sound crazy but maybe you can’t use a broad brush to paint an entire faction as “evil”. Especially when you look at their history of leadership -
- Thrall - not evil
- Garrosh - evil, “dethroned” as a result
- Vol’jin - not evil
- Sylvanas - evil, clear undercurrents of distaste and movements against her
True. So I suppose you can get away with painting them with a broad brush, which is why people find the Alliance boring. They’re way too close to being monolithic.
And this is the problem with the current story. The last time we had Horde leadership this bloodthirsty, we raid bossed them out of Orgrimmar. This time, a whole lot of Horde seem to be okay with it or are taking a weirdly passive/“bide my time” approach to doing anything about it.
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I wanted to post this separately.
How many folks play Alliance only that are talking here? I ask because I’ve played through both faction stories and BfA and I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is crap the Horde is doing that Horde players have no idea is happening.
A brief list of things the Horde has done that Horde players never see or hear about when playing through the Horde content provided thus far in BfA:
- The alliance with the San’layn
- Deathstalkers going into Astranaar after the battle to kill civilians
- Blood elves apparently messing with fel crystals again
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i see.
as long as i don’t see the horde doing something even remotely redeemable my point will still stand.
i mean, i could see it if baine actually does something after the derek thing, but it all ends with “well, i guess that sylvanas is the warchief XD” so. are they going to do something about it or not?.
the horde is going to have ANOTHER civil war after another evil warchief, so what was the point of the first civil war if they are going to repeat the same mistakes?
of course, that is on blizzard writers doing a storyline that no one wanted, but doesn’t change that,for me they ruined the horde and their “redemption” arc in mop.
“those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it”.
that is the case for the alliance as well, but that is for another thread.
because i am pretty sure that vol’jin started his rebellion for far more less to what sylvanas is doing right now.
but hey, i guess that the horde and alliance needs to FiND TheMSeLves.
It might be fine, except Blizzard doesn’t write them that way, except when they need a villian. Even Garrosh called the killing of children dis-honorable.
After all, the Romans would have called Teldrasil a great victory. But Blizzard treats things with modern stardards.
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I agree with the sentiments in this excerpt of your post. It’s also the fundamental problem I feel many have with the current story line; it’s not doing a very good job reinforcing/defending/etc the concept of the Horde we’ve been sold and re-sold over the course of WoWs lifetime thus far.
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I’ll say it. I wouldnt mind the hordes actions at all or even try to debate morals in a FANTASY GAME if blizzard allowed the alliance to do anything similar. But no. So here I an making morally grey memes.
I just want to put some forsaken on spears.
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I understand that but that doesn’t really mean these races lack empathy towards an enemy that is helpless. In fact you could view it as cold logic like “If I don’t kill this thing it may grow into a powerful enemy later on. So better for me and my family that they die now”.
I did not know about this character and in various books it is interesting to see outliers. Are goblins prone to sacrificing profit for the sake of greater good or better practices? I would personally answer no because most of the time wherever they set up a town or business venture they completely wreck it. If they were considerate toxins and trash would not be spread everywhere.
But thats just my thoughts on the matter.
Well of course but that doesn’t mean they don’t care about other races… I recall reading this cheap novel in the past. I really don’t recall the name… damn it. Anyway they book opens with them trying to survive from an invasion and they use magic to leave that world. They absolutely did everything to ensure the safety and happiness of their people but didn’t hesitate to kill defenseless humans in a village because they were in the way.
So you see my point so just because you care about your own people doesn’t mean you would or even could empathize with others.
To be honest Thrall and Saurfang aren’t all that perfect either. Thrall has slave pits in Orgrimmar and he was well aware of them. Also in WC3 he knew Grom had attacked human villagers and thats why he got captured but he still ran in to save him anyway.
I have more problems with Thrall that you can read here but that may be indicative of himself personally.
As for Saurfang, he was part of the first Horde that slaughtered their way through dreanor all the way to present day. Could we blame it on the fel blood alone? Maybe?
That I agree with.
They need to flesh out the various races further, so far they all seem to share everything down to the core values. Its just so lame.
Where are my inquisition crazed lightforged or xenophobic elves? 
If the Horde is not supposed to be seen as evil, why do we have the Horde PC Shame Tally?
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Because you made it.
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i don’t know, maybe because blizzard already has taken for granted that was the kind of content that horde players enjoy?
“woah, look at this alliance self-righteousness, so hypocrital, for the horde!”
who knows what is in the mind of blizzard writers, it has been a mystery since the start of bfa.
I can answer this shortly, no. In long form, They have human values, they were written by humans for humans. Human values can be pretty diverse. And we’ve been shown numerous times they have limits in war. A martial honor morality. I’ve read a few Sci-fi novels with aliens that have entirely different values than what a human could ex[ect, but with all due respect to Blizzard, none of WoW is that high level.
Very different universe…made by humans, to be enjoyed and empathized with by humans, using races that are smoothies of different earth-human cultures… The story is a projection.
Self-sanctimony doesn’t work here, because the “villain bat” is a claim by people dissapointed by the story now. Not jumping up and down “Kill Sylvanas.” I know there are people with that view, but that’s not the
It is odd,( and removing context is never good for honest arguments) but if we’re laying guilt and emtions on the characters, it means Blizzards writing team is doing the base of their job, to get us to emotionally invest in the story. It’s a key part of the RPG part of MMORPG.
You can think you’re superior and still care. Maybe it’s some do some dont. But the thought " It is our duty to use our advanced magic to help the poor savage races of the Horde." Could fit within Nightborne.
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The Horde overall has about as much characterization, intelligence and motivation as Broly from Dragon Ball Z.
In previous expansions, I’d have argued with you and defended the Horde. But the BFA writers have gone out of their way to make the Horde everything Alliance fans wanted.
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LOL! I walked into that one.
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