Thrall has always been referred to as the Orc that made the Horde honorouble.
Instilling Shamanic culture, warriors honor and integrity to the Orcish Horde after their rampage in the second war.
But I invite everyone to replay old WC3 missions. Read books like Tides or the numerous Cataclysm books.
Consider the circumstances and evaluate Thrall’s actions and words. Especially after the events of Cataclysm.
I have rarely seen a more narcissistic character.
Here are a few short examples.
As early as WC3 Thrall is told of Grom’s attack on Human settlements and why he was captured. But doesn’t care about some pesky human deaths in some village. So he raids another town to save Grom despite what he has done.
Before the War during Cataclysm Twilight Cultists disguised as Horde orchestrate a gruesome slaughter of NEs (as is tradition) in Ashenvale. Thrall is asked to find those responsible and denounce their actions.
He refuses because his people were celebrating the attacks.
Or fast forward to Cataclysm/MoP Thrall completely ignores the Horde and pleas from both Jaina or Cairne to stop Garrosh because he has to save the world.
Fast forward again to the events of Theramore bombing and again Thrall ignores the Garrosh problem infact he states that even if Jainas ghost shows up he would do nothing despite being told several times by other Shamans that they can handle it while he is gone.
This is all considering that years earlier when his people were in danger Jaina dropped everything to help him. The Horde were not yet directly threatened and no atrocities were done to them yet… But still asked Jainas help even though that meant she would be betraying her homeland and being directly involved in killing her own father.
The only time he does intervene and actually moves his butt to save Orgrimmar from Jaina. He then proceeds to take a lecturing tone and begs her to stop.
Which kind of begs the question… why was his presence so necessary in healing the world? The world did not fall apart.
Could this be because Thrall was just being selfish?
Most probably. Thrall even mentions he was done with being a leader and just wanted to be with his wife and shamanism.
I could go on. But here it is.
This is why I hate Thrall and why I cringe at the though of him crawling out of whatever hole he is in right now.
I like to think of it as hating Go’el. Thrall, the Warchief of WC3, was a paragon of Orcish culture and tradition. He wasn’t perfect, but neither was the situation of the Orcs. He couldn’t very well restore the Horde alone, which is why he needed Grom.
Go’el, the Orc we got instead of Thrall from the start of Vanilla WoW, suffered largely from the story taking a backseat to the gameplay.
I suggest people play Warcraft 3. But the Cataclysm books are generally bad, in my opinion.
When was Grom ever captured by humans?
Edit - They were going to fight in the Third War. Kind of important.
No, Thrall specifically said he would say he didn’t condone it and would seek those responsible. What he wouldn’t do is apologize or turn suspects over to the Alliance. Partly since he thinks turning “suspected criminals” over being a shameful act that would outrage people.
I think the idea is that he was busy most of Cataclysm.
I think they said they’d understand if he left, but he felt his part was significant. Per War Crimes, “Any one of the Earthen Ring who served there can tell you that no one was dispensable.”
Honestly, though, Tides of War is one of the reasons I dislike Golden. Sensationalizes everything.
His total inability to accept any of the responsibility or blame for Garrosh (despite being the one to force the issue of him becoming warchief due to nepotism to Grom) is an amazing example of that. He also doesn’t really seem to feel any guilt over the bombing of Theramore AND Jaina being driving off the deep end, despite the fact that she begged him to intervene before that and he refused.
Thrall certainly has his flaws, but thats not to say thats a terrible thing. He could still have character growth to address those flaws, and he does have plenty to try to make up for.
If it helps, he says in War Crimes that he blames himself for the whole Garrosh thing, to Jaina in person during their confrontation at the end of the book. He certainly seems to be feeling guilt and responsibility there.
EDIT: There was a summary on the old board–link below.
Oh I realize it, but at the end of the day whenever he says he’s “sorry” I just don’t believe him; because beyond hunting down Garrosh in WoD he NEVER takes actions to try to make up for his mistakes. His apologies, his guilt, they’re ultimately empty words because his actions always push the responsibility of them on others. His actions rarely match his words.
Jaina must get over the bombing of Theramore, SHE must not allow Garrosh’s actions destroy her. Garrosh is 100 percent completely responsible for what he became, despite the fact that Garrosh was somewhat right … Thrall forced on him a job he was never prepared for than bugged the hell out (and REFUSED to come back until Garrosh’s attempted assassination of Vol’jin).
He ignored the problem for two whole expansions.
You really can’t wash all that away by just fighting along side Voljin when things have become so absolutely screwed up.
He only returned AFTER Vol’jin’s near death at the hands of Garrosh and VOL’JIN requesting aid from Thrall to protect the Echo Isles (where in which Thrall finds HIS own Korkron assaulting the Darkspear). He doesn’t return after Theramore, after it occurs. He doesn’t return even after the assault on Pandaria. He ONLY returns after Vol’jin survives long enough to ask him to.
He then shuffles the job of Warchief off onto Vol’jin (to pick up the pieces). He pressure’s Baine into serving as Garrosh’s defender in War Crimes. He then hunts down Garrosh after his escape, but ultimately refuses to take responsibility for what he turned into (when Garrosh was right in some respects, he was forced to take on a job he wasn’t prepared for by Thrall).
Thrall’s only ACT to take responsibility for Garrosh was ultimately killing him, which was the EASY job … it was the picking up the pieces afterwards that he ultimately refused and failed to do.
He ‘ignored it’ in Cataclysm because he was saving the world.
And he failed to act in Mists because of doubt as to if it was his place to do so. Which I’m not washing away, but that’s different than this claim of narcissism or what have you.
So we’re all in agreement that he returned. Therefore, his actions matched his words. You can say ‘this guy has flaws’ without disingenuously exaggerating them.
In a sense, yeah. I’d blame Vol’jin too, though I wouldn’t call Sylvanas innocent in the least. I mean, what the hell! Stop making political decisions based on what voices in your head tell you. Sylvanas has been in the Horde for ages now. Vol’jin knows what she’s about.
Sadly, many on both the Alliance and Horde side have all but forgotten he exists in this expansion. How many times has he been discussed on this forum since he was released? Not too many at all.
i don’t hate thrall, i like characters with flaws.
that doesn’t change that he is a horrible friend, jaina literally let her father killed in the promise of peace.
Thrall-did-nothing-good to her despite that she saved him like 3 times (hyjal-daelin-undercity)
and what his excuse now that he is gone for all this time?
i mean… what actually good has done thrall in his friendship with her?
he still can be redeemed depending on how he re-appears.
Been saying this for awhile… Honestly, orcs in general are dangerously stupid. I believe that canonically. They claim to value honor, yet orcs have repeatedly shown complacency when it comes to slaughtering unarmed, innocent people, and that’s already giving them the benefit of a doubt and assuming they weren’t active participants in the slaughter, or supporters of it. They claim to have a shamanist, nature loving culture, but repeatedly are seen deforesting entire areas, utilizing slash and burn tactics.
Also… why doesn’t anyone ever bring up the fact that the Horde keeps slaves? Varian Wrynn was enslaved by the Horde while Thrall was Warcheif. Thrall, who was a slave himself, allows slavery as a practice within the Horde, not only of Alliance races but of Horde races as well…