Maybe M+ Leaving wouldn't feel as bad

I don’t see the problem? The only people who would reset on a wipe would be the ones looking for rating specifically. For weekly no leaver types nothing changes aside from some of the issues of getting “one guyed” being mitigated. And as far as rating farming goes they already do it anyway, it’s just less efficient and has the degenerate concept known as homework keys where they have to do pointless keys to get back to trying for rating.

Describe good game design for me please. That sounds like a catch all “I feel like its bad but I can’t explain why” rather than a real argument to a specific issue.

Thinking about it more I can see maybe an issue of people more easily falling upward, but that is already an issue.

2 Likes

If they get rid of key depletion what do you lose for failing? you guys don’t even lose rating

Maybe setting it to 3 attempts and then it gets downgraded?

this is a change I can get behind and have suggested it in the past. give keys 3 charges before they deplete, would give someone some padding in case of a bad group or a disconnect, but still have some risk assumed.

2 Likes

I don’t know… Your time and effort you reached that key level in the first place?

But I firmly believe you shouldn’t score as much if you didn’t time the key though. The vault contribution is a consolation prize.

Listen, if I don’t get my key downgraded for any reason. I would 100% be happy to host keys any time, any realm.

The fact that it can downgrade for any reason of failure just deters me from actually doing this. If it does, I really doubt that’s considered a “Good Game Design”.

1 Like

I feel like 3 is the magic number here. The 1 chance, then key depletes feels daunting.

How do you lose the effort used to reach that key level? You can just join a different group running the exact same key level and dungeon the only thing you lose is time its a joke a mode.

The repercussions are lost time, zero loot, no vault loot, and a downgraded key. Taking away the downgraded key would barely lessen the blow.

does the key downgrade if you complete the dungeon?

because if not, it amkes faililng a timer way too rewarding. you are getting loot and crests, for failure

Let’s say, you run enough M+ dungeons to upgrade your keys. You’ve been getting good members. You’re climbing to… let’s say +10 and let’s say you don’t want to push any further due to intrinsic reasons but you want Gilded Crests. So you decide to host a key.

As you host a key, you have two outcomes:

  • You have one person who runs in bad faith. Solution to this nowadays is to run with guildies or friends but they are not available to run these all the time.
  • You genuinely try to time it and didn’t make it.

Either two outcomes, you have your key depleted to +9 and now you are a number of 100 DPS applicants trying to join. In order to bounce it back, you have to run it again and who the heck know this scenario might happen again?

That means you also need to have friends or guildies that is willing to take you if you have a key that’s not a high level.

You don’t value your own time, do you?

If you don’t time it, yes. For any reason.

All other rewards are besides the point. Forcing a key downgrade just feels really bad.

Why does the failure condition have to be not timing the key? Why can’t the failure condition just be not completing it, like the failure condition for raids.

2 Likes

Faulty thinking. Each m+ run is considered the same as a single raid encounter.

Because you still get rewards when you fail.
Pick your poison.
No loot, no crests, no valorstones, but key doesn’t deplete
OR
Loot + crests + valor stones, but key depletion

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You get the same loot, less crests though, but you do get vault progress if you complete at least.

Everyone leaving is definitely nothing but wasted time but I personally agree that key depletion should stay.

2 Likes

When you fail the timer. The question was, why does the timer have to be the fail condition, and not just completion as it is for raids?

No

Because the timer is what m+ is set around…

The question was, why does it have to be?
Clearly it leads to degenerate gameplay and toxic playerbases.

Even if the key didn’t downgrade, having a key end before completion doesn’t change the fact that some unpopular specs like feral get to wait 2 hours to get invited.

Raid encounters are based around raid bosses
M+ is based around a timer

I don’t know how to simplify this any more for you…oh wait! I’ll BRB. Gonna go grab some crayons

That’s only for 1/5.