Went into a dungeon yesterday, happened to be a second Aug in the group. We didn’t even make the first pull yet and the tank starts trash talking about hard it going to be with two Augs. We were in a normal dungeon mind you. Yeah, I know I can play Dev, but I’m simply asking may Aug please have but a morsel of damage? Surely Blizzard have a few, old scraps of damage lying around we could have?
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I probably would’ve just temp swapped Dev, but I get where you’re coming from. For what it’s worth, Aug has some crazy burst on large packs due to Upheaval having no target cap. So ebon might > fire breath > tip the scales > upheaval > Eruption spam is actually really potent, especially with Chronowarden and 2 set.
Aug definitely feels worse for me personally after the nerfs to Mastery scaling and Ebon Might. 2 of them together in a dungeon just makes it feel worse I imagine.
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Prolong dmg is not something Aug can bring nor should it, our AOE burst damage is pretty crazy with just a press of a few buttons.
Aug true strength is utility, for more dmg its just best to go Dev which seems to be doing quite well!
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I mean it’s all moot because it was a normal dungeon, but Aug brings plenty of damage when properly specced and played (and when you don’t have two of them).
It’s reliant on having access to the entire Scalecommander tree though, so you won’t really feel it until max level with some gear.
That said, we have a second DPS spec for a reason. If you choose to be stubborn and stay Aug in that situation it’s fine, but the design of the class doesn’t need a rework because you decided to remain as the second Aug in a sub level 80 dungeon, lol.
I also would like a crumb of damage please.
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Please sir. Just one more morsel of damage. We’ve worked so hard. Just one more sir.
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If you’re not doing damage you’re playing it wrong.
Aug is top DPS in keys with a good group and is doing very respectable damage in SC if played well in raid.
It still provides more survivability and utility than any other DPS by far. We can’t have everything.
That’s it, I’m going back to Aug! (Previously was only using Chronowarden and soloing is a pain) but I vastly prefer the earth/black spells.
SOURCE!?!?!
If you don’t know how to use the literal front page of warcraftlogs, I can’t (won’t) help you.
You’re dilemma is understandable, but Aug is an S-tier spec and doesn’t need any ‘crumbs’.
If you need more direct damage that isn’t tied to buffing allies, then I highly suggest rolling Scalecommander Augmentation at higher levels.
As far as low levels, this is a non-issue and that tank was gaslighting the both of you. Even with two Augmentation Evokers in a group, leveling dungeons should still zoom by relatively quickly.
Focus the majority of your buffs on the pure DPS and Tank.
You do realize that even with the best DPS to buff like frost DK is doing 2 million overall damage, augmentation is not going to be the top damage in a group even when it is all attributed properly in logs. So a statement saying that augmentation is top damage with a good group is still technically false, fight length also matters because once you go down the list of keys, augmentation gets worse and worse the lower the key is.
You’re splitting hairs here on who comes out on top if the DPS are good. It’s also a fact that you won’t always have amazing DPS and SC Aug is still capable of doing top tier damage in those cases.
My claim is based on (and backed up by) data on all key levels at 95th percentile. Thanks for pointing out that a buff spec is worse if those being buffed are worse; you’re a real value to the group. It’s still not even the bottom spec if you isolate the data to +2 keys lol.
A statement based on data isn’t “technically false”, even if you want to argue about the specifics of two fdks lol.
At any rate, we could argue semantics on it all day, but it wouldn’t change the fact that it clearly is doing just fine and doesn’t need damage buffs in any way.
If you’re more concerned with coming up with anecdotal situations where Aug may not come out on top, I’ll leave you to it🤣.
I was just pointing out that Aug will never be the top damage in a key considering it’s damage is relative to the people it’s buffing and since you were talking about Warcraft logs, it seems you weren’t parsing the information properly either since Aug’s personal DPS contributions always 200~500k DPS below the people it is buffing at the highest levels and you only start seeing that at +11s and up. Even then, those are the situations where Aug performs the best.
When it comes to keys that were logged, you barely see Augvokers “on the front page” in keys from 2 to 9, even when looking at only Evoker DPS logs, with Dev still being the higher parsing of the Evoker DPS specs until you hit 11s, which is where you see people playing Aug (beyond the gear reward threshold).
Aug is not a ‘top tier DPS’ in pug content, Devastation will always beat it until you get into more coordinated top 0.1% players. So… It isn’t really anecdotal, it’s backed up by Warcraft logs where Aug isn’t even beating out Devastation in DPS until looking at the keys where people aren’t even playing Devastation, not even starting to compare Aug to other classes (which are also performing far higher).
In that regard, a key with 2 Augs will be at a severe damage disadvantage and bringing one Aug is still a group-DPS loss as it has been since DF S3, it comes down to if the utility it brings outweighs losing a few hundred thousand DPS (in the best case scenario) or an entire DPS player’s worth of damage (in the worst case scenario).
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In other breaking news, water is wet.
Wait, so if aug is top dps across 95th percentile parses in all keys but it ALSO ‘doesn’t do more dps than the dps in organized groups’ (which you’re claiming is the only place it’s actually showing up lol), how can both of these statements be true?
You’re either contradicting yourself, or you’re claiming that logs are inaccurate.
There’s no ‘parsing the information properly’ required, it literally requires zero filtering to see this data lmao. It was a blanket statement made about overall dps across all keys, there’s no craftiness going on here.
Seems like you haven’t paid enough attention to the change in the damage profile when aug is playing SC, because it absolutely can do top dps when played well since it doesn’t line breath up with others’ cd’s and just sends it when available.
I absolutely agree that as a whole, dev is the better choice before you probably hit 11-12 keys at this point, but that doesn’t make the data inaccurate, and it doesn’t mean aug is wanting for damage.
The top augmentation evokers are also playing scalecommander. The only times when you see augmentation doing good damage is when it is buffing people that are doing way more damage than they are.
Even with Scalecommander, a massive portion of their damage is from allies even if SC does higher Details damage than Chrono. Aug itself isn’t out DPSing anyone who’s alive in their party in high keys.
When it comes to reading information, if you are reading keys as far as points and representation, there are a lot of Augs but it isn’t because the Aug does a lot of damage, it’s because of who they are buffing. If you are reading purely throughput, Aug falls behind in DPS throughput until they very highest peaks and even when they can compete, it’s propped up by much higher-performing specs.
Also those SC Augs aren’t just sending it. They are lining it up with classes using shorter CDs than 2 minutes.
The idea that Aug is top DPS in their own party is a joke and is disproven by logs, so saying that Aug is top DPS is just showing an inability to read from Warcraft logs. If the Aug is just sending their buffs and breath for personal damage, they will be miles behind an Aug timing it properly which is still pretty far behind every other DPS spec when it comes to DPS throughput.
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You’re the only one showing an inability to read logs🫠.
I know it’s commonplace to deny very clear evidence in the USA though, it’s not your fault.
Would love to see you make the argument that an SC Aug should hold breath for CDs for more than a few seconds in the Aug disc channel with the people that actually understand the spec.
That’s literally not how you play it, lol. You should learn more about how the spec plays before spouting misinformation.
And again, you can die on this hill being wrong all you want, you’re clearly too stubborn to do otherwise-- it still doesn’t change the fact that Aug absolutely does not need more damage for everything else that it brings.
Best of luck with 4 of 8, Rash is fun af. I’ve spent enough time trying to educate you.
Am I the only one that thinks the long cast times for Aug is clunky?
I mean, looking at Logs for the top augvokers, the clear evidence is usually having Breath going during for the other DPS’s cooldowns. I’m not saying you should hold it for 2 minutes, because they aren’t running 2 minute breath because the people they are running with aren’t going with 2 minute CDs.
I’m not saying they need a damage buff, I’m just saying that it is incorrect to say Aug is top DPS, especially on it’s own. Just picking up one of Lizzi’s logs where they were at 1.7mil damage overall which is higher than most, 53% of their damage was from buffs, 7% from bombardments, 19% was from Eruption and 11% was from Upheaval. What were they running with? A Frost DK and a Fire mage, classes with shorter CD timings who could benefit from more frequent breaths.
You can run Aug and go for personal damage all you want, but in best-case scenarios even as Scalecommander, more than half your damage would still be reliant on the party for best results and if you are sending poorly timed Breaths, results would end up lower.
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If you actually properly scan the runs (you can’t use the statistics points aren’t a measurement of damage, but the values gained by the end of a mythic+ run)
Go into the actual runs based on the top evokers, with a little mathing (they tell how much was the evokers buffs) evoker alone does about 4-600k personal dps, and adds about 250k dps to each dps, 120k to tank, 20 to healer.