i wonder what the amount of overlap is of players that think healers should only have to heal and players that demand their team help with the affix. 
I must have been with some baller healers this week, then. I have a mouse over cleanse macro and even then most of the time the healer would heal the mob or dispel it before I could turn around and react.
Would help if they’d stop spawning halfway across the map in combat as well.
Don’t be surprised if you walk away with some type of ban or warning sent to you… wouldn’t surprise me.
Easy to call BS when you play a class that takes absolutely no skill or talent to play. Begone caveman warrior.
Your statement is only true if someone joins a group with the intent of doing so.
Per your own words, a person has to deliberately and intentionally be joining a group to leave mid key. If I join a key, and the people are now playing well enough to complete it…I do not need their permission to leave. And that does not fall into any “griefing” actionable offense.
Yet there wasnt one.
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None of that holds water to any level of scrutiny, and to assume one can would make it, as I stated, a case of where folks holding others hostage would be protected and those held hostage aren’t the ones in the wrong
To provide an example from RDF and then aftwards from M+:
If you use the random dungeon finder you go into it agreeing to do the dungeon you get queued up into, if you don’t want to do it and leave immediately, you get the deserter debuff and can’t queue again, but if you kill the first boss then anyone can leave with zero repercussions regardless of how it happened
However, folks have (in my personal experience and also why I don’t do RDF anymore whilst leveling characters) done things like deciding to not kill the bosses assigned to the RDF (in particular dungeons like Blackrock Depths) and instead opted for full clears of the place
If 4 people agree to grief the 5th, in your mind this is acceptable because of what you stated here but that’s not how that works
Now in terms of M+ this is where things are different because a key can fail because folks choose to leave, as long as you can fill up with new people its mathematically impossible for any one key to fail
Each person joins a M+ for different reasons, some of which are implied, some are explicited stated, and others are based off of experience with how M+ functions
You join a “completion” key then you are assumed to do it 'til completion … the problem is that you can fail it and in your mind, you try until everyone agrees to give up - but if someone has more experience than others and see a problem with the group once the key has started that cannot be overcome … what are they supposed to sit there whilst 4 people are holding them hostage refusing to call it quits?
Its not a strawman because unlike most other forms of content in WoW, you can actually fail to complete a M+ and some people can spot this long before everyone in a group agrees to call it quits - and this is just one example using completion, then you have key pushers, you have folks getting carried, folks refusing to do mechanics, and much, much more
And this is only looking at it from the perspective of “the keyholder is the one who is right” which is demonstrably false - if you join a group you don’t become their slave just because ‘by the mercy of pressing the accept button, you are now a slave to the whims of the green tick next to their portrait’
Don’t start with the social contract nonsense - it has to do with direct player-to-player interactions; just the same way you can’t be reported for not healing someone being killed by a mob in the open world you can’t be reported for leaving a M+ key
It isn’t griefing to leave a key, sorry but it isn’t
Griefing is to willfully join a key with the explicit intention to leave the key in order to ruin the experience of others
Merely leaving a key for whatever reason, as long as it wasn’t intentionally planned, doesn’t constitute as griefing
Which incidentially is why it would be neigh on impossible to prove griefing and why the hostage example I bring up would arise if you assumed the ‘majority’ in a group were assumed to be in the right and can make claims such as calling others for griefers and have 'em be reported for it
The entire idea you are operating under is an idelogical belief that anyone and everyone will have the same experience, the same knowledge, and the same intuition when folks do not have that - I know when a key is dead, usually I stay because I don’t tend to join folks who can’t finish keys in a satisfying manner
By the same knowledge and mentality that makes it so I don’t abide by hostage takers, I also don’t tend to join and stay in hostage-taking groups
Ergo by the exact defintion you are using here, leaving M+ groups unless it was the intended purpose in order to ruin the key/gameplay experience of others is completely fine
The only thing here that matters is the intent and yes, IF you can get proof of a player’s intent was to ruin the gameplay experience for others it is a reportable offense - you can report someone for griefing, but then you would require proof that they were actually griefing, and that requires intent, which essentially requires the player in question to openly state it
4 people in a group of 5 is a majority
You per definition cannot hold any degree of ‘property’ or ‘proprietary’ of a group of people … unless you are trying to argue that joining a group means that you accept becoming a slave so… I am going to assume that this was you not thinking clearly rather than actually advocating for slavery in World of Warcraft over other players
Completely irrelevant since you can’t vote kick or call for a vote in a custom group so… this seems irrelevant
Unless you are talking about some imaginary idea of joining a group in WoW somehow makes it a democratic (although you are saying the one who started the group is the only vote’s whose count so I guess… authoritarian or a dictatorship?) process wherein you lose personal autonomy … but then we’d just be back you advocating for slavery which I don’t think you intentionally are
So… no idea what you are saying here
… unless you actually are advocating for slavery, but again, I would assume you aren’t
Not even remotely true. The intent was that you agreed to participate in the group and fulfill the role you selected. Anything outside of THAT intent is intentionally against why you signed up for the group and were accepted.
Stop trying to argue this, you’re just wrong.
Its weird how the people you view as “wrong” will never get in trouble though.
So it looks like you are wrong.
When I join a group, I am not under any obligation to stay until the end. There is absolutely nothing to force me. Period.
I join a group with the intent to stay. I do not join a group promising to stay. There is nothing in the group-inviting-structure where you sign a promise to stay until the end.
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They can report anyone for anything but those reports will go right in the garbage where they belong. It’s not against the rules to leave a group at any time, no matter what it is.
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Yes, yes you do actually
All players joined the pug voluntarily, they can leave voluntarily as well
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Wrong.
/10char
this just happened to me, people calling op a liar are clueless.
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What just happened to you?
If we believe everything OP said, they had a bunch of reports filed against them when they didn’t do anything wrong.
So what?
If they actually didn’t do or say anything wrong, nothing’s going to happen to them.
This is really bad advice that I hope no one follows.
I have absolutely been in groups where people have reported leavers for gameplay sabotage, so it’s possible. Different scenario though, usually its the person who’s messing up that leaves and bricks the key that gets reported.
This topic is out of your depth.
Right, but players are allowed to leave any group they don’t want to be in, just like a group is allowed to kick any player they want, GD approved reason or not.
It definitely happens. I’ve received behavior warnings after leaving keys for “Communication”. However, since I usually only say something like “Thanks for the invite but this isn’t working” before leaving, I’ve yet to see these warnings manifest into anything.
In short, leaving a key isn’t against any rule, no matter how many times people report you for it. I think I’ve received almost 5 of these warnings now ever since they’ve been introduced. Feel free to do at your own discretion.