And less CC / mobility. It evens out.
1 Like
CC and Mobility are of less use in delves, where combat spaces are often constrained, littered with hazards (that can lead to you dying), or the mobs are outright immune.
2 Likes
So by this logic, no Lone Wolf MM are clearing high delves then? Every single one of them is using a pet?
1 Like
Lone Wolf is for M+ and Raid. On PvE World soloing Rares and Delves, Pet is 100% way easier. If you are stupid to make it harder with no Pet on Delves 11, go ahead.
2 Likes
So try petless 11s with the new talents, see how much âharderâ it is, and give feedback. Seems a lot more productive than throwing the toys out of the pram sight unseen.
1 Like
The issue is⊠Blizz and everyone who has no knowledge of MM is asking us MM to switch to BM if we want our Pets. Meaning, if we want to do Delves easily, we have to be BM which is I dont like as BM is currently designed not great on AoE.
1 Like
According to Icy Veins, BM is strong in all scenarios - that means ST, cleave, and 5+ AoE. The only real downside is managing the pet AI, which is a disadvantage MM+pet would also be saddled with, except even worse since MMâs pets have less room for error (e.g. more fragile etc.)
Iâm not totally unsympathetic; I think the compromise of letting the Spotter Eagle get a reskin to a pet in your stable is a good one. But I can understand why Blizzard, after multiple rounds of trying to balance Lone Wolf MM against pet MM, wants to finally rip the bandaid like they did with Survival so players can adapt.
Will they eventually cave and continue with the half-measure, probably. Until they do though, Iâm going to keep giving them the feedback that the MM I tried on the PTR is directionally what I want to see from the spec, and would make me more interested in playing Hunter than ever before.
1 Like
Brann is a great healer. Bring in some CC, the pet can live longer and can be revived endlessly as MM. On lower Delves like Delves 10 and below, MMâs pet never dies at least on me.
So with BM, you can Raid, M+ and Delves and MM can only Raid and M+ and not Delves as everyone wants us to become BM on Delves?
Maybe 11.1 Petless MM can do Delves 11 but I am pretty sure itâs way way harder than what it is right now with Pet. I can surely manage 11.1 MM but do I want the game harder? I want it easier.
What Blizz can do is : they make MM have better CC⊠longer CC duration and shorter CD as we have no defenses. SO BM has the same CC as MM and they have a Pet to tank for them? That is not balanced. If MMâs shots can slow, we would be good I think. But Bosses are immune to slow, we MM would be spanked hard on every Boss fight. WIth Pet, we use them as decoy. With no Pet, we will allow ourselves to be spanked hard. I hope Brann can Tank bosses. On Rare Bosses on PvE World, we have no Brann. We are on our own.
Pls raise my concerns on PTR. I am super Casual. I only have few hours of play time.
Non sequitur, I said nothing of the sort. I simply pointed that in delves, CC and mobility are not as strong because the map design just doesnât allow for it. Like the areas with the clean air or light circle, mobility means youâre only able to move within those spaces or you take damage/lose the ability to attack.
Given how hard they can hit, using a pet to give you 4-6 million more effective health and the ability to keep mobs out of your face so you can avoid mechanics makes it significantly easier. And yes, you can use LW and a pet at the same time. The penalty for using a pet with LW is the exact same as not taking the talent in the first place.
Edit: Also, pets ignore the area limitation mechanics. So you can pull mobs outside of those regions, giving you more room to move. Otherwise, youâre in a small space to which the enemies can pretty much always melee you. You are never a âmarksmanâ in delves.
2 Likes
No, we want MM players to learn how to not need a pet on delves like most other ranged specs in the game had to learn to.
And as for defensives - SotF, Exhilaration and Turtle are plenty. Not to mention all the cc, mobility and escapes.
Since when did this group care about lore?
I thought lore was âstupidâ
Current 11s are different, as there are new curios and Brann has been reset to level 1.
As expected, CC was useless against the toughest of mobs. Bosses and Rare spawns just walk through it like it doesnât exist, not even slowed. Ice Trap and Entrapment break on any damage, so theyâre not worth investing time in. Kiting was a death sentence every time I tried, as there are mobs everywhere, or you move outside of the vent/light and start dying or cease being able to attack.
Was it doable? Yes. But even a 4, which I required 597+ which is akin to an 8, felt far more difficult and punishing.
Give MM more defensives then.
All the ones you listed apply to all hunters, which means they are balanced around having a pet present. And a pet is CC that doesnât break on damage, allows you to reposition the mob where you need it after applying it, can be sustained via mend pet and benefits from all your defensives as well. So yes, MM hunters are using them too.
Furthermore:
SotF , and is a 2min recharge (max 2 charges talented) for a 6s, 30% shield. Ice barrier is on a 25s CD and slows, lasting 1 minute. Tempest Barrier gives you 3% of your max health as a shield on a 15s (13s talented) CD, 15s duration and removes snares.
Exhilaration is a 2min CD for 30% health. Alter Time is effectively a full heal on a 1min CD.
Turtle is 6s, 30% DR + deflects on 3min CD. Ice Block is 10s full immunity on a 4min CD (3min talented, and then you have the Ice Cold talent to further augment it)
Mages also have Mirror Image - 20% DR, 2m CD (can also heal for up to 9% max health), Invisibility/Greater Invisibility. Diverted Power which makes your Ice and Tempest barriers heal you for up to 20% of the damage absorbed.
And thatâs all from the mage side of their talent tree, so Arcane and Fire can get similar.
Frost Mages have same CC, same mobility, and same escapes. They also have better slows that donât require the enemy being forced to trigger it, are part of the damage rotation.
Unfortunately, that introduces other problems - better CC means they become far more potent in M+ as they can negate portions of the trash packs. Or they become godly in PvP, able to further lock down the opponents.
To counteract that, you then need to introduce immunities or PvP only adjustments to bring it back in line, further complicating the âsimpleâ solution that this new pet is supposed to represent, to the point where youâre just back to the same trouble balancing MM that is allegedly the issue.
No, Iâm fine with having a pet. It was just for a while, mm was known to be petless so thatâs how the spec did best with me. MM dmg is pretty cooked right now, so Iâve been tanking on my warrior and electrocuting with my shammy, until mm is a bit better.
So just to be clear:
Youâre fine with this being taken away from you? You can do this in Live servers now. Come 11.1, you will not.
1 Like
Really, itâs not a huge problem. lol Just as long as itâs still a viable spec in raids and such. Iâm no longer a M+ player, really but in raids I donât like being at the bottom of the dps list, nobody does.
1 Like
As long as youâre above the healers and the tanks, and your bosses are dropping- youâre playing just fine.
And the pet has nothing to do with how you place on meters.
2 Likes
Theyâre bringing pets back, sort of:
At least now itâll be âspend a talent point to get the pet backâ instead of âspend a talent point to get rid of it.â
1 Like
To be fair - itâs on a mandatory node youâre going to spend a talent point for, since itâs a pre-req for Trueshot Aura.
So itâs not like itâs costing you a talent point youâd spend elsewhere.