The single target damage is complete trash. All the other classes are soaring past it on damage meters while MM hunters are dead last. It needs to be balanced, and currently it is severely underpowered.
Survival is unfun due to trap weaving. Majority of the playerbase of hunters agree.
blizzard, listen to your customers who just want to enjoy the class.
This is an honest question considering MM is the defacto PvP spec for hunter.
Should Frost Mage, Sub Rogue or Arms Warrior (and to a much lesser extent Destro Lock) have their dps buffed as well?
Depend how well they are represented, MM might have some PVP utilities that Surv doesn’t have but it won’t matter if the damage isn’t there.
Hunter’s aren’t brought to be high DPS pumpers, especially Marksman Hunters, they’re brought for their utility and reliably average damage.
Generally speaking, a Hunter has to be really bad if they don’t average a DPS above 4k and ideally between 5-6k and it’s rare. In contrast, I’ve seen other classes range from really low DPS or being high depending on the player significantly.
Hunter is an easy class to learn, have almost no casting time for their abilities, are mobile, can MD, bring a raid buff or 2, and generally contribute to the group. Are they your big DPS? No but they will contribute enough for WOTLK content. You don’t need 10k DPS from everyone to beat TOGC.
Looking at demographics on ironforge.pro, hunters in general seem to be the least represented class on raid logs.
What utility lol??
Hunters are the worst class in the game atm, and it’s not even close. They’re the lowest damage class in the game ahead of only SHP and Shamans, but they don’t bring any real utility. Historically hunters have been brought for 2-3 reasons, misdirection, pulling and sometimes tranq shot. Aggro just isn’t an issue in Wrath and you have Tricks anyway… there is literally no pulling in TOGC and you only need tranq if someone falls asleep at their keyboard during Ice howl…
They’re just bad all around… The only reason you bring a hunter is so all their gear doesn’t get wasted in GDKP’s, but then also every hunter I see is 5600 GS already (and still doing less damage than the 4700 DK…)
Rogues have Tranq Shot too now, anesthetic poison on a weapon in the bags and you can swap it on to tranq bosses.
Didn’t even realize because that’s how rarely you need tranq shot lol. So yea… 3rd lowest damage class. Worst utility in the game. And you could actually make a case for them being just the lowest damage class since both Enhance and Shadowpriest have higher ceilings than survival.
There’s just no reason to bring a hunter except to throw them gear.
Take out trap weaving (as seen on twin valks) and it is the lowest dps class hands down.
It really is kind of sad… I was in a Togc with a 5700 hunter from Fusion the other day. and he still ended like 4th overall in the 10 man. I feel bad for my hunterbros.
You’re missing the point tho. Every specs in the game does enough damage to beat the content and everyone brings utilities to a different extend. Pure dps classes should be able to beat hybrid classes, buffing MM by like 10% wouldn’t hurt in both PvP and PvE and the difference between trapweaving and not trapweaving isn’t intended to be that big.
And there really isnt an excuse to not fix hunters. They already touched paladins for “underperforming” and druid to prevent unintended mechanics (flower/bear weaving). So hunters hit both of those boxes as using explosive trap over black arrow has a direct blue post saying that shouldnt be happening design wise from back in actual wotlk, and hunters are severely underperforming without that trap weaving as seen on twin valks.
MM’s PVP damage is fine. It beats Frost Mage, Sub Rogue and Arms Warrior in raid damage. It’s a very underrepresented PVP class because Hunter has always been one of the hardest classes to play in arena, not because of poor damage output.
The thing about mm hunters our dps is based on kill times. Like most classes but hunters longer kill times seems to hurt alot.
We dont need buffed that usually leads to a nerf because the buff turns out to be too much for pvp. No hunters just have to adapt and overcome.
Melee weaving, trap weaving. Hopefully in icc mm will get a little stronger.
My only question is: Why?
That has never been a thing in WoW. That’s why specializations exist. Sure if a spec was to be a hybrid healer and dps (like later on atonement disc priest) then yes a healer and a dps should out perform them in each role. But there isn’t any Spec like that in Wrath.
Typically, Survival brings a passive mana regen, and in the case of Marksman Hunter, Trueshot Aura if no other class for some reason has the 10% damage buff (like no blood DK’s). MD’s are more useful than tricks at pulling adds to where they need to go, Aspect of the Wild in case nature resist is needed, and in the case of TOGC, Hunters are used as soakers for the orbs in twins since they can move and shoot. We also get a hunter to shoot down the frozen orbs in Anub and as you mentioned, tranq during Ice Howl.
There’s certainly better options for Hunter utility or more situational better ones, but in terms of priority, the hunter can make use of those abilities while allowing other classes to focus on more important tasks and abilities.
Should MM Hunters be buffed, sure. Do MM hunters need to be buffed? Nah. I’ve made it consistent in my posts in other threads that I think none of the content needed to be buffed or made more difficult from its original release. If MM hunters feel they need to be buffed to match the challenge go ahead, it just doesn’t seem that way to me.
If MM got a buff I would be a literal god in PvP
You mean the same mana regen Shadow priests and Rets bring? Both of which bring way more added utility on top of that, and Rets are like 4th best dps in the game atm…
See above, but with blood dk/enhance.
It’s not, and even if it is… no one runs anything without at least one sham in the raid, who can drop the totem.
Half the classes in the game can soak as long as they’re not bad and any ranged can shoot orbs…
There is no opportunity cost on 90% of that so you’re not freeing them up to do anything, it’s just something they’re already doing. And the rest of the time they’re bringing waaay more utility while doing substantially more dps…
They’ve shown they are able/willing to buff PVE without it impacting PVP
Going back to my first comment on this thread. If they buff MM, they also need to buff Frost Mage, Sub Rogue, Arms Warrior (and barely buff Destro Lock).
Now they absolutely do need to fix Survival hunter. Making traps more reliable, make Black Arrow a suitable replacement for Explosive Trap on single target, or something.
Hunters should have at least one viable spec, atm they have zero. Be it MM, Survival or BM… one of their specs needs to be adjusted.