I don’t disagree, but there’s usually exactly 1 gcd (while warriors each put up a sunder) and after this it’s DEATHWISH BLOODTHIRST HEROIC STRIKE LOLOLOL from the warriors, crit shadowbolts, and the mages doing their best to get a ridiculous ignite rolling. Missing that first maul seriously sucks lol. Regrowth won’t even factor into it at that point.
I’m happy to be a filthy OT and not have to really worry about that too much.
I 100% agree with this. Kings and salv are huge.
So, while I would agree if the furyprot has a TF I would disagree if they don’t. It’s easier for druids to keep a threat lead once they have one and it’s also easier to catch up due to the way our talents interact with rage/crit/threat. I will say that popping an MCP causes your threat to go crazy and it kind of feels like popping death wish on a warrior.
All that said, is there a reason whoever the MT is should have to worry about fighting another tank for threat? That comment almost reminds me of the commercial with the old lady post to her “facebook” on her living room wall. “That’s not how any of this works…”
It’s only easier to keep a threat lead if their TPS is higher than Fury/Prot, and without MCP, their TPS objectively isn’t higher than Fury/Prot.
Even with an MCP, Feral Druid is only marginally better than Fury/Prot for threat generation while being a substantial DPS loss (even when considering LotP). The only meaningful benefit of Feral over Fury/Prot is lower DTPS when wearing full threat/DPS gear, making them good for situations where you need both mitigation and threat.
There’s no situation I’m aware of where you’re trying to get aggro; you’re simply trying to keep up with the MT so you’re 2nd threat (or 3rd/4th if you’re on Patchwerk).
I was just replying to a statement someone else made about Feral not needing MCP. If you are not using an MCP, even a 50-60th percentile DPS will pull aggro off you, let alone people doing 90th+ percentile levels of DPS.
An MCP is necessary to generate the TPS to be competitive with Fury/Prot tanks. Otherwise, you are substantially weaker in every important metric.
Ironchain is right as sad as it is, especially in the age of naxx geared warriors. TF isn’t even all that when you’re dealing with a tank with KT weapons honestly.
We’re a meme, but we’re not such a meme that we’re not brought along. However, if you’re competing for a raid spot in a try hard guild you better at the very least be using MCP on bosses if you’re trying to parse or keep up with threat. This is even more important for a bear than it is for cats I’d say. BQWH and even Atiesh are for trash mobs so you can perform decently without having to farm even more gnomer.
If I wanted to really pump I’d roll a warrior. But I love my druid, and I also know his day is coming in TBC. All is well.
Edit: haven’t personally MT’ed thadius but I’ve heard ferals are much better for that particular fight given how our threat scales. Once again, haven’t tried it myself but it does make sense given the multiplicative nature of our threat.
I agree. A very cogent post.
That also carries into Sunwell in TBC.
You want your Warrior to tank, but sometimes you will have you Bear tank, even though the raid is incurring a DPS loss by doing so.
A lack of crushes in Sunwell highly escalates a Bear’s capability.
A Paladin tank can always gear swap to FoL patch a tank for some tank on tank lovin’.
Warriors sadly put out very little DPS…they simply become debuff bots if they can’t tank, putting out what little DPS they can muster 
Well I guess my experience tanking differs then because I don’t need an MCP unless my goal is to fight the MT with TF for threat.
Untrue.
https ://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HTBwqx3pd4K2Pz1y/#type=damage-done&fight=26
Easily held threat without an MCP against 98th percentile DPS.
Threat meter at the end of the fight.
https ://imgur.com/a/tRwPb89
Easily held threat by having them wait 10 seconds, not being the one to cause Ignite, and killing adds.
Grats, I guess?
See how you gotta be shamed when you function outside the meta? There’s some people just can’t stand it when you play the game how you want.
Could play with everyone doing 200dps too but I don’t see why you would want to
Downplay it all you want but you were straight up wrong. 90th percentile DPS Warriors still 30k threat below me at the end of the fight with 1k dps. Would have needed to do 1,300-1,500 DPS before I would have needed a Pummeler.
Yeah a good kitty will do so much more than a sidelined Protection Warrior. I wouldn’t be surprised to see some successful guilds forego Warrior Tanks entirely since you’re only really needing Spell Reflect for Deaden on RoS. Otherwise Pally MT with a truck load of Ferals would probably work just fine.
What a stupid take on what I said.
I was just explaining why he was able to hold aggro without an MCP. Nothing about that was shaming for playing outside the meta. Feral Druid as a tank is already outside the meta, so if I were doing that, I wouldn’t even be entertaining someone playing it optimally, let alone playing it suboptimally.
I don’t care how he plays. That crap doesn’t affect me, at all.
Except I wasn’t. Your DPS were almost all green and gray parses with a handful of people 80+ who were attacking adds.
Of course when people give you a 10 second threat lead and don’t hit your target non-stop, you can hold aggro. Actually, you couldn’t even hold aggro, and lost it temporarily to another tank, which sort of EXACTLY proves my point about not being able to compete in threat against Fury/Prot.
If you’re too lazy to farm an MCP, fine, and if your raid group’s DPS is so terrible that you don’t need an MCP, I’m happy for you, but don’t try to pretend the fights where people are not even attacking your target non-stop and give you a literal 10 second threat lead is at all proof that I am wrong when I say you need an MCP to hold aggro against even moderately competent DPS.
I can’t believe you think your argument is valid when your DPS have to wait around doing nothing for so long, AND swap targets periodically, just for you to be able hold aggro.
That argument is exactly like the idiots that think threat isn’t an issue because they can tell their raid to just watch the threat meter and stop DPSing, not realize how heavily you’re gimping your raid by doing so.
It’ll be funny when “wait for 4-5 sec” won’t be such a dire problem anymore when TBC phases or add spawns can’t be strictly avoided like we can now with pre-wrap Maexxna kills or pre-Decimate Gluth kills.
Case in point. Gotta be shamed when you function outside the meta. Gotta be called “stupid” and whatnot because you choose to play differently than the elites.
Here’s more of this attitude:
Remember, if you can’t argue, just call other people “stupid” and “lazy” and “idiots” and eventually they’ll agree with you, right?
The meta doesn’t control me. You can take your elitest attitude and put it where the sun doesn’t shine.
well obviously it doesn’t because your guild doesn’t have high dps, and they’re fine with a tank that plays at a lesser level because it makes you feel better.
No one is forcing you to play properly. We know that
I am not a robot dad
That doesn’t prove your point at all. What you were replying has absolutely NOTHING to do with the meta, and my response was expressly detailing why I’m not shaming you for not following the meta.
Stop trolling and actually read the answer.
You don’t even know what elitist means, do you?
Nobody is forcing you to play the way you play either. You might as well say, “Fire is hot.”