Says the Mr. stopping misinformation guy
So you don’t really have anything then huh? Traps are not unique to Hunter. If I’m wrong, please correct me. If we accept traps are unique to Hunter, then we must accept Boomstick is unique to Hunter.
Anyone can aim a gun. Rogues do it all the time. You even mentioned it yourself. Not to mention, back in the day, Warriors and Rogues could use guns (and bows and xbows) the same way Hunters could without any massive penalty.
If you were interested in actually thinking about this instead of just wanting to be angry, you oculd be like “hm maybe survival hunters are uniquely skilled in using a shotgun and are proficient in using it in cqc, reloading it in cqc, and not hitting anything they don’t want to hit in cqc” but again, you just want to be upset because your headcanon isn’t real.
let’s take this a step further. you insist boomstick CAN’T be in setting “skill expression” because it’s just an easy to cone. Doesn’t that apply to Butchery? Carve? Anyone can swing a weapon in a cone/circle. Bladestorm? Fury of the Eagle? Slam? Mortal Strike? Raging Blow? Really any sort of melee attack at all?
The same reason that other classes don’t regularly use traps? The game mechanics demand it so things like hunters, rogue, and warriors can exist in a setting with magic, without being 3 carbon copies of “person who fights good”.
The fact that you can immediately bring up a hand-wave for pistol shot (close range firearm) and bte (close range firearm) as examples of in canon “skill expression” but can’t do that for boomstick really just shows you don’t have an interest in an honest discussion and just want to make yourself mad about video games.
It’s plainly possible in canon to bottle up wildfire too. Please show me proof otherwise. Show me anything actually in game that says DFG is something the hunter uniquely harvested themself and WFB isnt.
You can say that WFB is special reagents bottled by the hunter. you can say wildfire is oil harvested from a dragon with activating reagents if you wanted to. you can say it’s anything you want because it’s vague. it’s just as vague as DFG 
What do you mean it’s not canon lol you can go in game right now on a prot warrior and use a glyph to see your thunderclap literally conjure lightning bolts.
Go spec into Mountain Thane and you are conjuring massive amounts of lightning bolts every other second.
Tell me why something in game isn’t canon. Because you specifically dont like it?
No we don’t, we have supplied plenty of reasoning none of which you want to engage with.
Yes. Aim well? No.
Yes I also supplied several reasonings why the ability expresses their skill. You’ve ignored them.
Hunter was the only class that had the auto shot feature. It is literally why Rogues and Warriors did not rely heavily on ranged weaponry. Its almost like the ability expressed that Hunters have better skill, marksmanship, accuracy, precision, with ranged weapons.
Your one step further just slid you down a slipper slope fallacy.
Oh you mean because traps express a skill that hunters have?
Here let me help you.
I fight things savagely with a pet and useful tools- survival hunter
I fight things with cunning, poisons, and shadow magic - Rogues
I get really angry, like super angry but I channel that rage, using my mastery of arms, to hit things really hard and fast. - Warrior.
You see? Not carbon copies.
The game mechanics required rogues in the past to gather an additional reagent to use Blind, it is what made it effective. Now it says they use dirt… Everyone can use dirt.
Ill stand you 10 feet away. In Minecraft. Ill spin around with a fake pistol in my hand extended, randomly stop, and pull the trigger. Then Ill hold a fake blunderbuss, loaded with 15 foam 10mm steel bbs, Ill spin around and stop randomly and pull the trigger. Now you tell me. In Minecraft, which has a higher chance of hitting you, the Pistol or the Blunderbuss.
Im starting to think you have never held a firearm before. I dont think you know the difference between a pistol, a shotgun, a rifle, and a blunderbuss.
But you haven’t. You just pretend that Hunter is the only class that can uniquely throw things when they arent. There are many quests in the game that cause the player character to use traps and these quests aren’t exclusive to Hunter only.
In Court of Stars, for example, any blacksmith can repair a trap. Not just Hunters.
If I am wrong, feel free to correct me, but you have yet to do so.
I mean, yes. Their attacks don’t exactly miss.
If you ignore wands and auto-wanding
That’s your whole argument though. “This isn’t skill expressive cause anyone can do it. Not anyone can spin around in a circle or swing a weapon though!”
Tell me how I’m wrong.
They don’t though. You keep ignoring me. That doesn’t mean you’re right, it just means you don’t pick up on things that you dont like 
Usefool tools like WFB or boomstick? Or because you don’t like those, they dont count
Im starting to you think you don’t live in Azeroth with a high fantasy setting. Why did you bring up “Minecraft” in an effort to prove your point? How about you you try to use your “fake” guns in “Minecraft” while there are 10 murlocs smacking you while you’re getting hit with fireballs too? Do you think could aim your “fake” gun in “Minecraft” then too?
Well I kinda agree that bombing spec is weird on a melee.
Also with how unpopular survival is, I think they shouldn’t have went the melee way.
hunter could have easely used.
- Spec with a zoo army
- One with 1 single big pet
- A fully ranged petless class.
The class been range forever and clearly, the melee version just attracted so few players that blizzard have problem to get enough feedback to fix anything for them.
just last expansion the melee hunter spec had more players than marksmanship tho. does that mean people think fantasy archer is a problem and should have been changed?
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Similarly, you are a 4 year old, we know, no worries there.
I’m the one who started using lore to justify bad opinions about Survival?! LOL. My god.
The difference between making a lore argument and making fun of one is a fine line. I can see how you totally whiffed that one.
I’m agnostic, I’m not arrogant enough to claim to know what deities are up to. I leave that trash behavior to people like you, apparently.
Your understanding of most things is minimal, trying to use this here is a great example of that. Keep making a fool of yourself, you sure are good at it.
Oh no, what a great burn!
Even your attempt at gotcha are lame.
You did to me, since i wasnt using.
So trying to use other players to validate your vapid response to me is bogus
And you clearly dont know that line seeing your previous attempt at comedy, its not your strong bit
Jesus, it doesn’t matter if you are or not, you people cant understand analogies at all, that’s why y’all cant discuss like normal people
At least i do have an understanding and im always aiming for more
Unlike someone who doesn’t have any, at all, admit proudly they don’t and don’t seek to understand better
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Not a burn, and observation based on your grammar and general disposition. You have to be a child. It’s the only explanation.
You aren’t the only person on earth. There are 648 posts in this thread. Why in the hell would you think everything is about you? lol.
lol, go beaver go.
I have better things to do than get in a lore pissing match with a child rper on a video game forum.
One thing is clear, you think you are pretty smart. I hope that works out for you.
In the end you are the first person I’ve put on ignore on these forums. It has taken this long for someone to bring so little to a discussion that I want them to disappear. Congrats. You did it!
Actually coming up on being melee longer than it was ranged. Might be even or slighting in melee’s favor at this point. Either way, it’s melee and the odds of them ever changing back to ranged is very slim. As far as popularity goes nothing will ever beat out BM. A ranged physical dps spec that doesn’t have to stand still only falls behind when it’s tuned really poorly. It will always clobber SV and that is totally fine. SV doesn’t need to be super popular. Sometimes small communities of players is fine.
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Well if we go by that you are in a fetus state, cause you arent making sense and your jokes arent funny either.
Then go use your lame rhetoric on then, or dont get pissy when your argument gets demolished.
yeah, like looking like a goober in the forum 
You would still lose either way, cause you are just lame.
Thanks but im just average, i look better standing next you guys 
if you want to count vanilla as purely ranged (which I dont think you should) it’s 2004-2016 or 12 years. melee 2016 to at least 2027 (through midnight but we all know it’s not changing) so 11 years.
personally, i dont count vanilla as either melee or ranged, so it’s been melee longer than ranged 
says the guy who insists something actually in game isn’t canon just because he doesnt like it xd
One is preexistent vocabulary. We have fireballs irl. They’re just not made by magic, instead just being anything covered surrounded by fire as to be seemingly roughly spherical in shape, usually but not always in motion.
The game meanwhile has both dragons and fire. So why go out of their way to not call it a dragon’s fire?
And again, how TF is being a time-space wizard to portal in actual dragons’ fire or a transformer to suddenly spit it out oneself (in the form of a… grenade, no less) more Hunter-esque than using rarely-known combinations of ingredients from the wilderness or one’s kills to craft a low-tech item nonetheless capable of the kind of destruction reminiscent of a dragon’s fire?
Yes, a Role-Playing Game.
So maybe have some concern for actual gameplay?
You seem convinced that the “skill expression” of a game depends only on what backstory is implied for each action name per a singular individual’s headcanon is somehow a majority opinion. It’s not, nor even a sensible one.
Because you so casually craft and accurately… throw bombs in your spare time? That’s your hang-up? That it’s already your day-job or something?
See Evoker if you want to make fire directly from a dragon.
See Druids, the users of 10.2 “wildfire”.
So it’s only Hunter if it’s literally the skills of a different class?
If you want to be a flame druid, glyph your druid. If you want to be a dragon, be a dragon. They’re both options already that do not require turning Hunter into some sort of weird transmutation mage.
Exactly as I’ve said.
You’ve purposely ignored half of Survival’s kit from Legion onward, ignored its actual continuities since then and across its whole, gave frequent misinformation, treated consequences of the same larger change (like WFB’s prominence seemingly increasing —despite taking up a lower portion of casts and total damage— due to the general gutting of SV’s kit) as the driver of its shared consequences, ignored how language works, managed nearly every form of hypocrisy, and refused to apply your own warrants evenly, all to push a narrow, low-optionality view of what the spec should be.
You’ve managed to take people who want mostly what you want —apart from dismissal of actual gameplay in favor of (your contrary-to-available-evidence interpretation of) flavor-text— and make them opposed because you attempt to remake the spec through purposeful omission instead of just pointing out what you want and how it’d fit what’s actually there in its full and insist on the removal of options more so than available additions.
And, just as anyone in this universe can learn to throw fireballs yet only mages do, only Hunters use a shotguns, rifles, or any other 2h ranged weapon.
You can prefer that shotgun not to be a part of your build. I don’t want it to be part of mine. But it is no less Hunter than the fireball is Mage, Blind is still Rogue, etc.
There is no more or less skill in throwing special dirt than throwing dirt.
Buying your ammo does not make your shots any more skill expressive. Buying white items from a vendor to unlock it did not make Blind any more skill expressive. The flavor text change was a weird one, in that they could has easily have pretended it was still a more specialized item, but it’s still the Rogue, a personality/archetype/proficiency that would be the kind to reliably blind someone from so far away or even think to do so.
If that archetype plays no part, then even if Blinding Powder had to be crafted from hand-picked reagents by the very rogue who used it, there’d still be no reason to believe a Warrior, a Druid, etc., or any herbalist-alchemist could not pick the same plants and crush them in the same way to make the same powder.
By DnD standards, mages and warlocks should need specific items and invocations to cast their spells. Is their fantasy likewise ruined for not WoW’s bothering with them? Are we left bereft of “skill expression” just for no longer needing a light feather?
The bloat-item is irrelevant.
Buying a bloat item. Is not. Skill expression.
Depends. We have side quests where we’ve gone up mountains to get ourselves blasted by lightning to channel its power, so it would essentially depend on the character, lore-wise — sometimes generic manga-esque AFX-as-VFX exaggeration, sometimes very much a part of the Warrior’s skillset.
- And, frankly, no one’s doing a Heroic Leap without a bit of bodily magic unless they could do nearly as much consistently. Even the Compendium and seeded lore tidbits in-game indicate as much.
But that’s all tangential. The point is that if 2h ranged weapons were class-agnostic, there’d probably be at least one class to use them.
Hunters being their unique users since Cata could be excused in any of various ways, from how to make the projectiles to how to properly charge a musket to how to predict and/or correct for its bias, recoil, Archer’s paradox, or even how to paradoxically allow for 4 shots from one charging of a blunderbuss, or whatever else… but whatever the case, 2h ranged weapons of every sort remain or own.
Rogues and all ranged besides Hunter have no trouble hitting their mark from considerable distance, so accuracy/dexterity/knack alone clearly isn’t the dividing line. Maybe it has more to do with how it slots into their overall efficient/effective position / use of their skills, but in the end, it’s ultimately just that the devs decided that X = hunter, just as surely as a certain color of magic fire = Evoker.
Which brings us back simply to this problem:
This. And in that, the primary issues problem is the lack of bridging kit and ‘wild’ side options, not that there’s significant tool usage, let alone that part of that happens to be… in line with things Hunter has uniquely had since Vanilla (explosives).
Its you about the dragonfire granade 
Unless those are specifically for warriors, which i doubt they are, nah
could just be cause warriors are more resilient, thus being able to endure it
where? cause in wow everything wow does is pretty much non magical, rare cases of warriors who use it
This is easy to solve:
- Dial back the focus on bombs and explosives, not remove then, just dial back
- Bring back venoms and poisons to interact with bleeds
- Remove boomstick, replace with fury of the eagle
- Imo bring back flanking strike
I mean, you already saw my suggestions to virtually the same (just with a bit more melee tech as well), so virtually no argument here…
- …save that I’d slightly prefer a different, indirectly utility-bearing and less funny-looking variant of a melee AoE-CD opposite Boomstick (still to be an option for those who like more ‘man’ [tech/craftiness/‘well, f these guys’] in their ‘man-vs-wild’ spec).
I’d ideally go a little further with beast-buff synergies or the like, and perhaps even bringing back Kill Shot but with a melee variant for when in melee range, etc., but agreed on the core of it.
And ofc, what explosives remain should imo feel a bit more… cunning/tactical. More WFI-with-real-impact-this-time (not its contextually pitifully DF state), so to speak.
Y’know, I can’t remember well enough to say it was for sure. You were referred to as a Warrior, iirc, and the animations certainly lined up, but… {insert player class here} and coincidence could do all that.
Where they hint that inconsistent bouts of supernatural strength is just that — supernatural. Doesn’t take away from Warriors being a relatively nonmagical class; it’s just that when all the leveraged adrenaline of a Fury warrior still amounts to only some 40% increase in power, rage alone does not suddenly make one’s legs 40000% as strong.
Etin, hippogriffs, dragons, etc., and most monsters that would seem to uhh… have physics disproportionate to their physicality… in this game are inherently magical to at least some extent.
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Point to canon that says it’s actual dragon’s fire. You can’t. You just say “well the name says it’s dragonsfire, so it’s dragon’s fire. wing clip doesn’t involve any wings though. mongoose fury doesn’t involve any mongoose tho”.
i was referring to the fact that warriors, canonically, in game, summon lightning bolts and you just ignored that and said it’s not canon
This is a perfect example of you not actually contribute to the dialogue but instead add your own contextualization. There is no actual stance being made in this phrase. Just more ‘um actually’.
Couldnt tell you. In light of no given context we are allowed speculation. Our speculation is in defense of this ability, Dragonsfire Grenade and how it could provide skill expression and spec identity. We are taking the name at face value because that is the most obvious path of logic as it makes sense when considering the Hunters fantasy.
This is just hyperbolic.
But is it though? We don’t know that. They called it Dragonsfire Grenade. Could just be napalm. But the idea of harvesting and bottling fire from a Dragon is the cooler explanation. Lines up with Hunter fantasy. And shows a deeper expression of skill.
Serpents Sting
Viper Sting
Wyvern Sting
Dragonsfire Grenade
Are we to believe all of the previous were nothing more than herbs and tinctures? Whats easier to believe? The rugged outdoor tamer of wild animals milked venom from dangerous animals and harvested fire from dragons or that they are actually just an alchemist?
My stance has always been to reskin the abilities to be closer in line with Class and Spec fantasy. How does reskinning the abilities disrupt the gameplay? What difference in gameplay is there between Boomstick and Fury of the Eagle? None. There is however a great deal of difference in skill expression and spec identity which are in the realm of the Role Playing portion of the game we enjoy.
Something like that lol. No the hang up has always been that the abilities being pushed, Boomstick and FFP, do not express a level of skill that belong tied to a Hunter in a fantasy rpg setting but are closer to that of a FPS game. They do not fit, plenty of people have stated this gripe already.
Sigh
Double Sigh. I feel like you didnt actually read my clarification and justification of Wildfire Bomb.
Take your Meds sis.
You have the entire identity of what makes a class a class backwards.
It is not, I can learn how to throw fireballs so Ill learn to be a Mage.
It is, I am a Mage because I have the ability to throw fireballs.
Again backwards. I have an innate accuracy with Ranged Weaponry, connection with animals, and understanding of the wilds, I am a Hunter.
Shotguns and Blunderbusses are not the same. Just like Shotguns and Pistols are not the same. We dont want Blunderbusses, and shotguns would fit better with BM and MM than it does with a Melee Survival Hunter. This is simple logic.
Here let me put it into a verbal equation. You can tell me which takes more skill.
- Bend Down + Pick Up Dirt + Throw Dirt In Enemy Eyes = Blind
or - Learn Herbalism + Grow in Skill in Herbalism (160 for Fadeleaf) + Find Herb + Harvest Herb + Have knowledge of Poisons (150 for Blinding Powder) + Craft Blinding Powder + Throw Blinding Powder into Enemy Eyes = Blind
Now that is in its most organic form. Can you skip steps, yes. But you cannot get around the fact that equation 2 require more from the rogue than equation 1. Are you still going to nit pick this to death? Of course you are.
Correct just cause you buy your ammo doesnt mean that your skill with ranged weaponry is better expressed.
That was the whole point of bringing blind into this. By removing those extra steps and introducing the idea of just pocket sand, Blinding someone in this manner no longer becomes rogue specific. It looses the skill expression from the rogue, its no longer special.
The creation of Blinding Powder was relegated behind the knowledge of poisons. A knowledge that was not shared with other classes.
We literally want the exact same thing.
Why are you arguing then? Do you really have such an issue with our reasons as to why we disagree with a bomb/boomstick oriented Survival Hunter that you are splitting hairs?
We have the same vision for Survival Hunter.
It seems like you just want to argue for arguments sake.
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Sure, but it’s just really, really weird to gracefully speculate about DFG on day 1 and not call out people who refuse to offer that same speculation to WFB. Wonder why.
what do you mean “just an alchemist” lol. You don’t think someone making poisonous applications is an alchemist? we already know the class dabbles in light, hunter specific alchemy based on things like emergency salve or explosive trap/immolation trap/flamefang pitch/etc.
in your narrow head canon and in your opinion. stop stating these things like it’s fact. you can extend that same line of thinking to other specs/classes in the game, but you don’t, cause it doesn’t hlep your narrative.
er so using guns =/= not innate accuracy with ranged weaponry? does a shotgun not count as ranged weaponry in your narrative?
it’s not logic, it’s your opinion
this has nothing to do with the setting lol. why doesnt everyone just have blind then? anyone can do it..but they dont.
“The use of Boomstick was relegated behind knowledge of firearms in close quarters combat. A knowledge that was not shared with other specializations”
the irony here is insane as usual
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Because the term Dragonsfire has preceding context that we know what a Dragon is and know they breathe fire.
Going into BFA we dont have the same context from the term Wildfire.
Everyone can be an alchemist. Therefore it is common and so we use the term ‘just’ to emphasize the basicness of it.
We’ve been down this road before little bro, it isnt one you have shown the ability to keep up on. Also we have only ever stated these as our opinions, that we have continued to back up and explain to you in good faith but you still remain in the dark on top of never actually being able to defend you own position. You still cannot come up with a coherent argument for the Blunderbuss. You literally run from it.
More evidence that you still have yet to do any amount of research on the difference between a Blunderbuss like Boomstick and a Shotgun. Which is more evidence suggesting that you have never held a gun in your life.
Lol
Thats the question lol. It has flown over your head a dozen times.
Mounting evidence that you dont know what a gun is or how it works. Look up ‘The Gun as the Great Equalizer’.
You and others cursing this thread have created quite the reputation of being nothing more than contrarians.
Its like you hate us for simply having an opinion that you dont have all while not being able to articulate your own.
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But that’s my point, we dont know anything about Wildfire in that context. Yet people choose to speculate in a way that makes them upset. It just doesnt make sense to me.
But everyone isn’t an alchemist, just like not everyone is a warrior. Everyone in the setting can go smack things with a sword. It does not take special training. However, people who do specially train themselves can do more in depth things exclusive to a warrior.
Much like a Hunter uses special hunter only alchemy. You’d think a fantasy that even you yourself admit is in tune with nature and the wilds would you know…use nature and the wilds in this way…
No you dont lol you get upset and call anyone who disagrees with you a dumb contrarian. don’t act coy and innocent.
Real life has literally nothing to do with Azeroth “lil bro”.
Mounting evidence you think real world physics and real world constants apply to a high fantasy setting. I’m concerned.
Reminder that people disagreeing with your opinion does not make them a contrarian. If you do not wish to have people disagree with you, don’t post on a public forum.
I repeat, the irony here is insane lol
you can keep getting super butt hurt that your personal headcanon doesn’t impact the game, and that survival has had the same fantasy since 2016 and that you dont like it. looking forward to seeing you here for the TLT testing phase too when SV still has the same fantasy