Make Templar good again!

Classes Paladin
1

Am I wrong when if I say that hammer of light not having a limit of 1 every 30 sec is not broken ?

It didn’t feel or seem imbalanced when Templar could spam hammer or light. It’s dmg was almost as good as herald, even doing a little less. So why not buff it by adding that as a feature next week ?

It would make a lot more prot paladin and ret paladin choose Templar over the other way better hero talents right now. As it stands, Templar is weaker than both the other 2 hero specs at the high end where I play. I can’t tell for casual and low end content because I play pvp at top 1% or less and when I do pve I’m always doing max difficulty from the start.

I’d like to know the opinion of one of the devs for paladin. Don’t hesitate to give feedback in the comments.

2 Likes
2

its been a few weeks, get over it

the bug ruined both specs mechanically in ways that were cringe. ask for direct buffs not bugged fixes

also saying your “no1 prot paladin” when no one plays prot paladin in pvp is not the flex you think it is

6 Likes
3

I really wished you would create 1 thread with all your grievances.

You’re at like 8-9 thread between your shaman and Paly kind of just rehashing the same things over and over.

4

Templar sims higher than Herald for Ret in ST… so if anything Herald need a small buff in ST and Templar in AOE to fully equalize them.

5

Sims are worthless.

In real life, I do 200k more with Herald than Templar.

The empyrean hammer do not fall enough to compete.

Lights hammer is just execution sentence 1x every 30 s.

The hammers have to do about 25% more dage. To compete

6

Wouldn’t exactly say worthless or that they are 100% correct, but it’s true that the average human can’t perform at “sim quality”.

That’s really a big discrepancy due to an unoptimized rotation.
I also did about 50-80k less dps with Templar than with Herald on the dummy, but then i optimized my rotation and got it to a lower difference.

I still prefer Herald since i don’t like how Hammer of Light feels, so i just play Herald in ST as well. But Templar would probably be higher a bit (10-20k max) if i optimize my rotation for it, but cba.

7

Optimize rotation?

I do the same rotation, it shouldn’t be different.

The only diff is to hammer 1x at 5 hp, which is still crap damage.

Why would hammer be better than have multiple lasers zining through a target or targets?

I have never had Templar out damage Herald from beta to now.

I just tried it again and still 200k less

8

Wasn’t the whole point of the spec, before the bug, was to do huge laser and keep shake the heaven buff up as long s you can to rain down hammers? Then you might get another free hammer of light once you hit 60 stacks? I found that more fun than spamming hammer of light.

9

then you are doing something wrong with your rotation

10

Are you saying this because you still believe it made some of the talents irrelevant (it didn’t) or because you still believe it enabled instant 100% uptime on Hammer of Light (which was mathematically impossible)?

Really? Because, looking at actual logs, that seems to be a perfectly typical gap between Herald and Templar. I guess no one understands how to play it but you, huh?

If you’re going to be rude all the time, can you at least not be rude and wrong?

11

Well what am I doing wrong?

I only see 1 way to activate hammer of light, and that is to wake of ashes into hammer o light icon, then build 5hp, activate hol, and hopefully empyrean haers. Follow suit.

After that 1st hol activation, I do not see any other way to proc hol except. To wait 30s to wake again.

And the baloney way the devs ‘fix’ things is to NERF Herald, rather than

BUFF TEMPLAR

SO annoying

12

I check you pvp
you only have 1100xp at 3v3
but here you are spouting off.
it’s pathetic

13

maybe cause i dont pvp at all? nor care about it? plus theres a million ret player pvping right now compared to the 3 prot paladins that hate themselves enough to play

nah theres a reason for that, but go off.

you know we get another hol at 60- stacks right? and the templar tree main engine is doing your rotation correctly enoguh to extend shake the heavens to get those stacks faster

14

Are you a game dev ? The message was clearly directed to the dev for paladin as mentionned in the last paragraph. So your message isn’t useful to anyone.

15

It did, it totally did.

Pointless is the term I would use for most, overpowered for 2 in particular.

Shake the heaven extention is pointless if you can get 8 more second from recasting HoL.

The Shield and Heal strength is stupidly strong if you can cast it 3 -4 times.

What’s the point of Hammefall if you’re gonna spam HoL within the window instead of your other spenders?

We were clearly not meant to be “perma hasted” by 12% from spamming HoL either.

The capstone is supposed to be impactful, yet the bug didn’t make EH fall that much faster which meant that over a minute you’d get maybe 1 free HoL over 6-7 normal cast of HoL

That’s not impactful, that’s a 16% increase in cast instead of 50%.

Blizzard are on the record saying Hero talent would be contributing about 20% of our DPS and that bug made so it was doing north of 40%.

That was an obvious bug, it always was.
Granted it wasn’t clear from the tooltip alone but when contextualized with all the other talents it became crystal clear.

Stop peddling this narrative it didn’t break the tree, it did without even a shadow of doubt.

1 Like
16

Recasting Hammer of Light did not add onto the duration of Shake the Heavens, but instead set it back to 8 seconds. You needed Higher Calling if you wanted to keep Shake the Heavens active until your next Wake of Ashes.

That would be a balancing issue, not a design one. Personally, I think the current iteration of Sacrosanct Crusade is basically useless without the bug.

Because the window only lasted 12 seconds, and you could not get enough stacks of Light’s Deliverance in a single window to trigger another Hammer of Light.

You didn’t have “perma haste” even with the bug. Besides that, this is (again) a balance concern and not a design one.

With the bug, Light’s Deliverance triggered another 12 second window of being able to cast Hammer of Light. This alone would make it proportional in impact, but the extra Empyrean Hammers makes the bugged version more impactful.

I don’t know who you’re arguing with here, but it isn’t me. I’ve never once said it wasn’t a bug or that it was intended. That has nothing to do with whether or not it worked from a design standpoint.

I’m “peddling a narrative” by correcting misinformation? Please. If there’s a narrative here, it’s being peddled by the people making incorrect claims to begin with.

17

Which basically means 18-20 sec from HoL cast alone since you’d probably had one cast in the last 2 seconds.

Also this just hammers in the point that the extension was pointless because it would reset to 8 anyway…

It would only matter at the end and soo what’s the point of a 4sec extension over 20sec vs 4 over 8, it’s not impactful.

It was already balanced, for 1 cast.
It went through the beta and the first 2 weeks as it was.

That’s not a coincidence that it happened to make sense at this value for 1 cast, that was the intent.

If Sacrosanct is useless than so is SoV, it’s the same mitigation amount of mitigation (15%+ x2 over a minute vs 30% every minute + vers scaling).

Fact is, 15%+ is not useless and you know it, it’s passive mitigation attached to a damage button/defensive CD, you don’t need to do anything to profit from it.

It has less use for Ret but will always be fully used as Prot paladin.

That goes back to the first point, for the majority of Shake the Heaven effect you wouldn’t have been casting other spenders so what’s the point of it?

What’s the point of having it start at HoL usage instead at the end of the 12 second window if this is what they wanted/intended?

It doesn’t make sense, especially when it does make sense when it’s meant to just be 1 cast.

That’s why it’s in " ".

Point is, you’re not supposed to have 12% haste buff have above 50% uptime.

The tuning was already DONE on this, which it why it makes sense, AT 1 CAST.

All the talents didn’t need tuning, as you suggest, they were ALREADY TUNED FOR 1 FREAKING CAST.

Except, again, it doesn’t make sense that it would because then the window could overlap with Wake CD, which is freaking stupid design wise.

When it’s available ONCE in the next 12sec and when Wake is on CD for 1 FREE cast, it doesn’t have this problem.

All those weird issue disappears, poufff, almost as if it was intented for it to be 1 cast…
So strange…
:thinking: :thinking:

If your answer to all those self-evident issues that broke the tree is to conclude that its all those talents that are “poorly tuned” instead of recognizing that it was just the first node that was bugged than you’re not correcting misinformation, you’re spreading it.

If something weird happens that makes it so that all the talents needs to be retuned, the problem ain’t those talents, it’s the bug.

You’re not gonna remake an entire city street grid because someone chose to make a car twice as wide as the normal ones to accommodate it.

You’re gonna fix the stupid car.

Well fine then, but don’t go saying that it didn’t break the tree as it was.
It did.

If you have to remake the whole thing to make multiple cast a thing, then it was breaking the initial one.

1 Like
18

this entire post is full of cope and inaccuracies and just plain misinfo

2 Likes
19

Aye, I thought everyone knew spamming HoL was a bug and was going to be fixed. I mean…wasn’t it obvious that spamming one ability wasn’t how the hero talents was supposed to be played? That is why they had a capstone to get a free HoL out when it got full stacks.

The gameplay loop was always, wake of ashes, hammer of light, shape the heavens buff and do your rotation to keep that buff up so it rains down hammers. After 25 seconds, another wake of ashes to keep it going in a loops.

Not, pop wake of ashes and hammer of light for 15 seconds.

Was it fun, yes, but was it intended? No way, first time I was playing it with the bug I knew it would be fixed and just run with the fun until it was fixed.

1 Like
20

Which basically means 18-20 sec from HoL cast alone since you’d probably had one cast in the last 2 seconds.
Also this just hammers in the point that the extension was pointless because it would reset to 8 anyway…
It would only matter at the end and soo what’s the point of a 4sec extension over 20sec vs 4 over 8, it’s not impactful.

It was already obvious that you didn’t know how bugged Templar plays, but it’s becoming increasingly clear you don’t even know how how regular Templar plays. Crusading Strikes alone will give you more than 4 seconds of extension. Playing regularly, you can extend Shake the Heavens well past 20 seconds.

Why are you arguing with me when you don’t even know the basics of the discussion?

If Sacrosanct is useless than so is SoV, it’s the same mitigation amount of mitigation (15%+ x2 over a minute vs 30% every minute + vers scaling).

First things first, yes, Shield of Vengeance is not an especially good defensive. There’s a reason why Retribution was considered one of the squishiest classes in the game before the 10.0.7 rework.

That being said, a 30% dedicated defensive (that also deals damage) is better than a 15% rotational passive, even if the rotational passive has half the cooldown. Shield of Vengeance can be used to strategically survive damage that would have killed you otherwise, while Sacrosanct Crusade is more likely to absorb unimportant chip damage unless you intentionally hold Wake of Ashes to use defensively (hopefully, I don’t need to explain why this would be bad to do).

That goes back to the first point, for the majority of Shake the Heaven effect you wouldn’t have been casting other spenders so what’s the point of it?

Yes, it does go back to you not understanding Shake the Heavens or how long Higher Calling extends it. You could easily roll StH into your next Hammer of Light cast, using TV/DS in the 18 seconds between.

All the talents didn’t need tuning, as you suggest, they were ALREADY TUNED FOR 1 FREAKING CAST.

And yet Templar isn’t the recommended spec for any content right now, not for either spec. Even in single-target PVE where Templar is supposedly neck-and-neck with Herald, Herald actually performs much stronger, as can be seen on any logs. How well-balanced!

This can already happen if Light’s Deliverance reaches 60 stacks just before Wake of Ashes comes off cooldown. Practically, the only effect the bug had was making Radiant Glory (slightly) less desirable. Maybe you could explain why you think it’s so “freaking stupid.”

I’m going to quote myself in bold with the hope that maybe you’ll actually read what I said:

“I don’t know who you’re arguing with here, but it isn’t me. I’ve never once said it wasn’t a bug or that it was intended.”

It’s your position that those talents would need to be rebalanced with the bug. I was only humoring you. My position is that those talents already need to be rebalanced, because Templar is currently in a bad place. There’s no reason to play Templar in any content.

I can and have demonstrated how the actual mechanics still worked, regardless of if they would have needed to be tuned. If needing to be tuned is evidence that the tree is broken, then Templar is currently broken. The specialization is basically dead as of now.

Like what? Go on. Point out what I said that was inaccurate or “misinfo.”

Every post you make is either you claiming something demonstrably wrong or attacking people for calling you out on it, because you are categorically incapable of defending anything you say. You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. That’s why when someone pointed out that sims don’t match reality when it comes to Templar out-competing Herald in single-target, you told them they must be doing something wrong - even though all logs from every boss back up what they said.

Just be quiet.