nah i wont be quiet. ben already did that, i alread ydid that, so many people already did that and its the same response
saying this alone, just flushes your entire point down the toilet. its a grasp at straws trying desperately to be “right” when your not
“no but but but! it doesnt extends it just resets the duration its TOOOOOOOOOOTALLY different” when the end result is the same aka makes the window non existent and passive completely bricking the engine and the points of other hero talents. theres no point talking or engaging with bug copers cause its always some dog poop backwards reasoning as to why they want to keep a clearly bugged thing to make up for their poor play
What Benmarch did was misunderstand features of the Templar tree, both as it works now and as it worked while bugged.
Where? When? Feel free to quote yourself.
There are good arguments against the bugged playstyle, chief among them being that it puts a band-aid over Retribution’s problems instead of addressing them directly with changes to core abilities available to both Hero Talents. But that isn’t the argument you’ve been making.
You really, genuinely don’t understand what’s being discussed, do you? Even on “your side” of the argument.
Benmarch claimed the extension to Shake the Heavens (from the talent Higher Calling) is pointless if you got 8 more seconds from recasting Hammer of Light, point being that there would be no need to extend it, which would make Higher Calling irrelevant. That isn’t true, and there was a 10 second gap between the end of the last 8 seconds Hammer of Light gave you and Wake of Ashes coming off cooldown. Higher Calling let you bridge that gap. Ergo, it wasn’t pointless.
Explaining how you’re wrong isn’t justifying anything. I enjoyed the play style, but I already acknowledged there are actual good arguments against implementing it. Those arguments just have nothing to do with your own.
Templar does need changes, but I don’t think those changes are (or necessarily should be) the 12-second Hammer of Light window, even if I personally enjoyed it. At a minimum, they need to:
1.) Make Empyrean Hammers always hit your target instead of random nearby enemies.
2.) Reduce the stacks of Light’s Deliverance to ~40.
Everything I’ve said has been demonstrably true. Then again, you seem to believe I was arguing the 12-second window wasn’t a bug, so I’m not sure you even know what I’m talking about.
No, I’m sorry but, again, claiming the bug didn’t break the tree and the intent behind most of the talents is disingenuous.
Your response to all those was essentially “they needed to be tuned or modified” which indicates it did break it.
Whether the changes that would need to happen are simple or complex is irrelevant.
The fact that you need to look over most of them AT ALL to even make it work is the point where the bug broke the tree.
It’s hard to take accusations like this seriously when you’ve already shown you aren’t familiar with Templar’s mechanics, either as they are now or as they worked while it was bugged.
Once again, I was humoring your position that those talents needed to be tuned.My position, evidenced by the fact that Templar is undesirable in all situations and all forms of content, is that Templar currently needs to be tuned. Following your logic, that would mean the talent tree is already broken.
First of all… The bug can break the tree independently of whether the initial tree is broken or not.
The bug just breaks it in a different fashion.
Secondly…
What Templar needs as tuning ATM is not a full rebalance, rewording and change of interactions of 7 (on 11) of the current talents that would have been needed to accommodate HoL spam.
It needs a QoL change to Empyrean hammer radius and targeting, which doesn’t touch any talents whatsoever.
And MAYBE a reduction in Light Deliverance stack (which frankly might not be needed if the EH hit further than 8yd because we wouldn’t loose as much).
I agree, but I’m not the one saying the tree was broken because Sacrosanct Crusade might possibly have healed too much.
“Don’t break what’s already broken,” huh.
Let’s see what Benmarch from 3 hours ago has to say about this:
Oof. You’re making yourself look bad here.
I know we’ve already established that you don’t play Templar (and hey, who can blame you? No one does!), but Light’s Guidance, Shake the Heavens, and Hammerfall all specify that the Empyrean Hammers fall on nearby targets, not your current one. If we consider changing Light’s Deliverance - which, considering Templar isn’t even good at single target, we would need to - that’s already 4 talents that need to be changed.
Lol ok, sure.
I played with it, I still play with it, I’ve read it IDK how many times already, I know how it is supposed to work.
This is stupid.
You’ll excuse me to not have bothered to learn the intricacies of the inner workings and how to maximise the output of an obvious bug.
See I have this tendency of not learning pointless sh*t. Just as I wont learn to drive a car which is missing an entire wheel… Because it’s stupid, and nobody should have to explain how it breaks the whole idea of driving the car in the first place but here we are.
Whether the 8 sec of shake the heaven was reseted and not added changes nothing to what the interaction meant, it still went beyond what was clearly intented and effectively broke it.
But sure, ride that wave hard and use it as a strawman to show I don’t get it.
Your intentions are transparent, nobody will take this seriously.
In fact, I don’t either.
Have good day, hope you enjoy your playtime.
Oh, sorry! I just figured you would be more familiar with how Higher Calling worked if you played it, since it’s one of the most important talents in the tree.
That’s totally fine! I just don’t understand why you insist on arguing about it.
I really thought they would be - but considering two people (you being one of them) have accused me of arguing the bug wasn’t a bug, I think I’ve already been misunderstood.
What I said was that it didn’t make the talents irrelevant. You argued that it did, and I demonstrated otherwise. If you want me to say that it “broke” the tree in that Hammer of Light wasn’t functioning as intended, then sure, it did. I really don’t care about that.
What do you think my “intentions” are here? Do you think I’m trying to get the bug brought back? Because I already said it almost certainly won’t be and acknowledged there’s good reason for that. I even proposed what I would actually like to see implemented, and you mostly agreed with it.
No, my motivation here is that I’m sick of seeing Arahgon insult people based on nonsense claims that he can’t back up. I’m sick of seeing his noisome posts where he calls people bad or tells them they’re playing wrong, all while he gets green parses on a class he calls “braindead.” I’m sick of the way he deflects whenever you bring up his bad behavior, making it seem like he’s the put-upon person who was forced to be rude.
This entire argument happened solely because you interjected to defend a claim he previously made, maybe mistaking me for someone saying the bug was actually intended or whatever.
What a funny thing to say after you obviously misunderstood the point Benmarch was trying to make about Higher Calling.
Alright, so this whole thing was about being specific about semantics…
Because by irrelevant you understood they would have done/were doing literally nothing, is that right?
Jeez man…
I get it, it’s something I take issue with too, like when people categorize things as either “Meta/OP” or “trash/meme”.
No nuance.
I did and still do.
Many are, including me.
I told him before that even the times he does have a legitimate point, the way he goes about it makes me want to disagree with him.
He’s abrasive and he doesn’t seem to be a native English speaker/writer (neither am I btw) so the way he writes often undermines what he tries to say on top of his personality.
I did take offense that the tree wasn’t somehow broken.
But to follow up on what I said above, I butted head enough with Arahgon before to kind of guess what he means, even when the words he uses aren’t the most representative of what he’s trying to convey.