I’ve always liked using traps for damage. I mostly enjoyed the old Immolation Trap and Explosive Trap though. The newer ones we see that is basically a root and bleed is of less interest. Sure, they fit thematically, but yeah…
Anyway, I can understand that such frequent use of traps for damage can result in a fairly awkward “rotation/feel”. 12 seconds is way too short. In fact, I would say that even the regular CD of 30 seconds is in the same spot.
For me, I find that traps used for damage are best served for situational use rather than “rotational”. A trap with a mid-range CD of 1min or perhaps even 1m30s allows the trap to be a tool for a priority target and not just “use it on everything, always”…
This being the reason as to why I made my design like I did for Immolation Trap.
Another reason for why I want traps for damage is because it opens up a lot of interesting(subjective ofc) ways to build on it further, it allows for a different approach to the theme in general. Something people have shown interest in in the past.
Same.
Also, much of how they have realised the theme/fantasy of a munitions expert and trapper. It just fits the class very well.
Sorry, can’t agree here.
It should’ve been kept as it’s own separate spec. Period.
Oh, I agree with you 100%. I’m just speaking from the position that since they did it and were determined to make the change, I feel they could have fit the abilities into BM tree much easier than the MM tree. MM was intended to be the root and shoot spec while BM is mobile with quick shots/abilities. Mechanically, I think SV would have been an easier transition into BM than MM.
From a pure mechanical standpoint, sure. It would still’ve required a lot of talents in BM to be occupied by RSV elements instead.
Although that would also depend on what they would’ve done with MM if they had made the decision to actually merge the two(MM/RSV).
In all likeliness, MM would not have turned into what it became in Legion if this was instead the case.
Still, my position remains the same. The merging of specs should never be considered. It’s not about how, if you choose a spec, you can suddenly only do what that spec provides, despite the fact that you’re still a hunter.
While specs today are very restricted and there’s little inbetween them, that’s only for mechanical/practical reasons.
Specs are a representation/visualisation of the choice we/our characters make.
Would some want there to be some overlap of certain elements, between specs? Sure. Others don’t want any.
But either way, specs aren’t programs loaded into our characters. They represent the choice you/your character makes as to what type of hunter you want to be.
It basically is already like this. We get 3 baseline traps, and can talent for more. And our pet gives us extra utility. I do much less damage in most my runs than lets say a DH or Rogue. However I provide more utility than they do.
I typically have tanks thank me after runs because I am the guy spamming them with misdirect on CD so they cannot lose aggro. Throwing tar traps down so they can kite through it. If I see them about to die I taunt the highest target add off them with my pet and let the healer catch up. Spam soothe off all the enraged adds to keep less damage coming through.
The problem is utility isn’t meta. High damage comps with high kiting ability are meta. You can only push so high in any content with someone filling a utility role. Versus the skys the limit if your dps can put the damage out.
Let’s try and put some detail to this. So I ask SV hunters of old. What are the specific sv mechanics / gameplay loops that defined ranged sv you would want in a new ranged SV, or a new ranged spec that attempts to emulate old SV?
I’ll start
Full instant / cast while moving
Pet as utility
Serpent spread / multi dotting serpent stings
Lock and Load resets + Explosive shot chaining
Black arrow single target dot + always giving a Lock and Load proc
Low Focus cost spenders, creating a much smoother flow of resources / feeling like you’re always in a position where you’ll be able to press a meaningful ability
High sustain damage focus, lack of cooldown reliance
Entrapment
This is the stuff I miss that I can remember. The stuff that made survival feel good to play.
It’s unlikely bliz ever remove the melee survival (Though it should really have been added as something like myrmidon and not cost others a spec they were enjoying), but we can at least be honest and specific about what we loved about ranged survival, so bliz know what mechanics / gameplay feel is missing from current hunter.
Because neither of those specs resemble the mechanical design or gameplay of pre legion survival in the slightest.
The argument here is essentially the same as any other player feeling like the gameplay they resonated with has been lost in the legion revamp. Theres just an extra layer because that change also made the spec melee.
Current survival less so, I’d agree with legion sv. While it wasn’t the spec I’d played until then, I still found ways to enjoy it for other reasons.
It doesn’t change the fact a massive number of people lost a spec they’d been playing for a long time, and no aspect of its gameplay remained after legion in either of the other two hunter specs, beyond I guess the constant mobility of BM.
It shouldn’t come as a big surprise really.
In a game where they design each choice of playstyle(spec) with the goal of having each spec feel sufficiently unique from one another, down to even individual talent choices and such, it shouldn’t surprise anyone that just because there are ranged options for the hunter class, that doesn’t necessarily mean that said options are anything close to what some players enjoy.
And if there was a playstyle that did indeed differ from those currently available to us, there will be players that want it back simply because they can’t get it from the current ones.
Basically everything you said. It was essentially a mobile dot class with a unique thematic. It wasn’t overly bursty outside of Lock and Load procs, and its lack of actual cooldowns balanced that out so that while occasionally bursty it was primarily just good ole consistent damage. The pet matters but isn’t the focus so the wonky pet AI isn’t nearly as much of a hindrance as it can be for BM.
The spec was just, really fluid. It wasn’t a hard spec(though very few, if any specs are these days). But it was just, fun. The thematic was fun. The mobile nature was fun. The gameplay loop was simple enough while also remaining engaging enough via Lock and Load proc’s to be well, engaging. It was good at CC as well due to things like Entrapment and even Wyvern Sting so it was a very solid spec for both dungeons and PvP. Of course it also did well in PvE due to overall good consistent damage. Plus, I’m not gonna lie, Serpent Spread was just, hella satisfying.
Agreed. As several of us have said countless times in the multitude of SV threads that pop up, those of us who played and miss RSV and want it back, are not advocating for the removal of MSV because we know it does have a community. But nothing will ever change the “feelsbadman” feeling over having the spec some of us played for over a decade deleted overnight.
Personally, the gameplay loop and pet utility were the biggest things I enjoyed about RSV. So if something like Dark Ranger ever became a spec(or class), I could see myself enjoying it if they had a spec that was essentially RSV(given Black Arrows thematic, I could see this as a possible route one day). But I also know, a lot of the RSV fans liked the premise of using poisons and venom, along with traps and stuff. So I’d prefer that over reskinning it to a new spec.