What a crazy idea. If only someone thought of it before.
Make First Blood baseline.
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First blood baseline will accomplish the following:
- it will devalue our mastery
- it will reinforce the idea of pressing buttons off cooldown because the button is off cooldown.
- it will homogenize our aoe rotation with our single target rotation, which is not a good thing.
It will not accomplish the following:
- Provide interaction
- provide meaningful synergy
- enhance the rotation in any way
First blood baseline is not what the class needs. Please stop bumping this thread.
You literally are post #11 asking for it to be baseline.
Nice flip flopping.
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Yes, that was approximately four months ago. You may find that people change their opinions over time when they research more on a topic or develop better ideas. It’s not flip flopping. It’s evolving.
I don’t believe everything I believed when I was 12 years old. Wild concept, I know.
You’re comparing your ideas as an adult to being a child while discussing you’re ideas 4 months ago (barely before Shadowlands released to current state) when we knew the state of Demon Hunters entering this expansion.
Nice try though. I get your point regardless but as someone as “educated” on Demon Hunters as you, I don’t see how you changed your opinion so fast.
The rate at which I change my opinions shouldn’t really be a matter of concern. When I believe something is a good idea one day but admit the next day that it wasn’t a good idea, it’s really just that simple.
Reality is, particularly when it comes to idea regarding class design, my thoughts on what would be good for the class change day by day.
Two days ago I wanted the first talent row to be unchanged (in terms of fury generation). The next, I wanted felblade to be modified to be similar to a vengeance’s Fracture.
That said, I’ve been decidedly against first blood being baseline for quite some time now.
I just think it’s a very lazy ask that really doesn’t provide any solution to the issues of havoc dh design.
Pressing additional buttons for the sake of pressing additional buttons really shouldn’t be the goal.
I disagree in that making First Blood baseline and replacing it with Bloodlet would give some flexibility to our rotation choice. Running Cycle of Hatred with Chaos theory doesn’t feel that great when wasting so much fury to proc the legendary and having FB baseline would indeed be a good solution this while also opening back up the ranged viability to those interested with proper tuning.
It’s not lazy, it’s easy vs a full redesign. Not everyone wants a rework. Similar to how some prefer Legion Shadowpriest vs what we have now. Is it good? Yes. Is it more fun? Arguable no.
Citing borrowed powers to justify baseline design is flawed thinking. Blizzard did it in legion, and here we find ourselves.
Replacing first blood with bloodlet would yet again be another press a button because it’s off cd.
Where is the synergy in your proposal?
You press glade dance because it’s off cooldown.
You press throw glaive because it’s off cooldown and causes a bleed.
These two abilities would work entirely independent of each other.
Where is the interaction or the synergy in your proposal?
Mastery should benefit our central-damaging button.
First blood baseline just ain’t it.
If you look at my post history you’d see I advocate heavily to not consider borrowed powers in what makes us a complete class. That doesn’t mean it’s going to change Blizzards process or how they do change us. Take note that eye beam refreshing upon Meta was an azerite trait originally. Perhaps we’ll see chaos theory’s effect be a baseline thing (hopefully not a talent) in the future.
As for Bloodlet, having it as a talent would have it synergize with an already existing talent in the same row as fel eruption. Particularly for PvP this could create a new playstyle within the spec. Ret Paladins, Fury Warriors, and Frost DKs already just press buttons when off cool down with very little synergy side from “oh this lit up I should press it ASAP”. Trying to water down the argument by saying such a thing is again just asking for a rework which certainly isn’t going to happen in the middle of an expansion.
our mastery is already devalued, a whole class redesign is no longer realistic as we are already 10 weeks into shadowlands with 1 buff and 2 nerfs to the hunt.
yes mastery is something that should be addressed, but having fb based has nothing to do with it either. the current state of havoc is actually skillful, with felblade, demon blades giving an interesting playstyle with fury generation. there are classes presses their buttons for the sake of pressing it and putting it on cool down, and i don’t think that’s bad class design, pressing blade dance always feels good and rewarding, why should we complicate it?
borrowed power is already a standing issue, but having first blood baselined will open us up to new placestyles such as essence break or cycle of hatred with chaos theory being the legendary, and relentless pursuit conduit scaling into the late game, providing an interesting playstyle of keeping our demonic form up. this actually does provide synergy between both of them.
there are a lot of changes that I generally disagree with, and I don’t want havoc to be a brainless class, currently I think havoc is now incredibly interesting to master with two playstyles (blind fury build & felblade db). the skill cap of havoc has increased tremondously, and giving us some small changes like first blood baselined and perhaps in the future a mastery fix (although I really do prefer haste & vers builds) will do the spec real good.
3 Likes
Don’t listen to Haugs. MFBB
Chaos Strike, Blade Dance, and Eye Beam should always be core to our rotation.
This is…laughable at best.
Not to start a whole “dh’s are easy” argument of nonsense, but no, it’s not particularly interesting. You passively generate fury and get a proc that gives more fury every now and then.
First blood baseline would effectively make it our rising sun kick or mortal strike. It is a physical-damaging ability. Our mastery does not benefit physical damage. Yes, mastery has something to do with it.
Again, you’re involving borrowed powers in class design. It’s flawed reasoning.
It’s not. Both rotations are incredibly easy. “Mastering” takes little more than a dungeon run or a few quests out in the open world. The only variance you have with chaos theory is you need to pool fury before each blade dance.
?
You really shouldn’t. Versatility is easily the least interesting of all secondary stats. If versatility is one of the top two secondaries for a class (outside of pvp), it speaks to lack of creative design in favor of stat scaling. Baseline, we have furious gaze. Except haste isn’t a good secondary if you’re playing CA, because haste predominantly benefits FB/DB and blade dance’s cd reduction. So, our baseline stat scaling really only benefits one build. This isn’t good design.
Don’t listen to strife. He throws in one liners with nothing constructive.
All three should be core to our rotation. Blade dance, in aoe.
If you want blade dance to be an arm warrior’s whirlwind with first blood, alright. I don’t particularly agree, but fine.
Even still, we need a mortal strike. First blood isn’t that mortal strike.
Fury Warriors generation is the same. Should people cry that it’s boring or easy?
I’m really not sure what you expect out of this game and class design.
Edit:
I personally also like verse and haste being our best stats. I can use PvP gear for PvE and can switch to tanking whenever with essentially the same gear. Not all classes are like this and I enjoy that DH is.
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Passive generation is fine. Virtually every other melee dps has it. With it comes interesting spenders, which havoc doesn’t have.
Interaction and synergy are what I want. I’ve made that very clear in many posts
From what I gather you are correct on that and I agree. It’s called ADDING to our current rotation baseline. Only then would FB not really need to be baseline but again you’re asking for a redesign. Blizzard isn’t going to do this right now because it’s well Blizzard. They can’t be arsed to fix our Vengeance PvP stun. Thus, people are asking for the easier improvements.
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I just believe a redesign is what havoc needs.
Any time committed to temporary measures is time lost towards meaningful class design, which is why I’m not a big fan of it. I was a fan of first blood being baseline in earlier months because 1) I hadn’t really thought of better ideas and 2) It was shortly before expansion launch and I had lost faith in a redesign.
Now that we can really only expect meaningful changes to come with a significant patch or the next expansion, I want to ask for bigger and better things.
That said, blade dance should not cost 35 fury in its current iteration. This is primarily because cycle of hatred exists, but the damage does feel underwhelming for how much fury it costs. That, and chaos theory’s design. It’s nothing short of absurd that blizzard has an aoe ability in blade dance (by their baseline design, it is an aoe ability) being required to be used to benefit a single target rotation. I think if the fury cost was reduced to 15 or so, your grievance with its synergy with chaos theory would be resolved. Then, first blood would be more similar to an arms warrior’s talent that causes whirlwind to also slam the primary target.
There’s just so much wrong with the class.
2 Likes
it just sounds like you don’t like playing the class as much as I do while sounding elitist about it? idk there’s also a simple answer for you and that’s to just reroll,
also just again, all these “points” you made
- Provide interaction
- provide meaningful synergy
- enhance the rotation in any way
are just wrong and i don’t think i’d want to explain it to a person without an open mind, regardless it actually doesn’t matter since you wont even get what you want (a rework), so it’s also laughable at best as well.
but sure, I agree borrowed power shouldn’t be used but, we are 10 weeks into shadowlands and you well know blizzard wont rework a class, what you’re asking for is unrealistic compared to a simple and easy change for the class…
FIRST BLOOD BASELINED.
other than that, stay mad XD
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I tried to find a single thing in this comment worth replying to and I gave up. Three edits later I don’t see a single point of analysis or worthwhile conversation.
1 Like