Another cosmological retcon, yay.
MuâSha was simple another name for the same deity, elune is still real, for both religions.
where are the alliance races better warrior? o.0, if you mean the duel between Malfurion vs Saurfang, Malfurion is not a warrior?
I donât want characters to be destroyed just for some faction-tail comparison, full stop.
Thatâs right, I stand by that, Elune right now is the only remaining exciting puzzle of Warcraft, been building for years, to now couple AnâShe with all this things just to have the same thingâŚis like the Horde demanding the Alliance share their âtoysâ, because what you say can also be twisted and said, you want what the Alliance has.
Itâs not about a power fantasy, because even if Elune is the most powerful being in the universe, she doesnât do more than she just does, she never has, she never will, but the fact remains, sheâs interesting.
in the same way bwonsamdi is unique and interesting and i don´t want an alliance-copy of him. he has his own "theme, Bwonsamdi for example protect his followers before the maw, elune didn´t.
i never argued about âPowerâ, never, my point was allways another one. so stop throwing me into this corner.
if you want about âpower-Fantasyâ talk to the other peoples here, im not interested in such a thing.
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Arenât the night elves supposed to be as strong as orcs, despite their smaller frames? And then again with the worgen (as well as them sharing both the wolf themes and taking a horror trope, both of which used to be horde-exclusive). The alliance has access to their own undead via death knights. Their own alien space demons from another world through draenei, too.
Void elves are a weird case though, since on one hand they used to be alliance to begin with. But the whole âfancy looking race actually being darker with a debilitationâ angle debuted in TBC before being recreated with the void whisper stuff.
You can almost create a second original horde out of non-original alliance races at this point. The only thing the factionâs really missing is something with its own tribal aesthetic.
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Well, as strong as orcs - physically - I donât know. They are at least physically strong, and are pretty much the fastest in the entire setting and skilled like almost no other could even dream of. That in combination with high intelligence and discipline as well as training makes them a dangerous opponent.
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Wildhammer Dwarves are probably the closest to having a tribal appearance in the Alliance, IMO.
So you admit that ââmoonââ god was both race deity until blizzard decide that only night elf were true about it while that god doesnât care about the taurenâŚ
Well yeah so excuse me if i donât care about the ââuniquenessââ of something that shouldnât even be faction locked.
Are you real here??? After the amount of time that you claimed how night elf were being describe as the ââultimateââ warrior you are now asking how the alliance race are better warrior???
But now that you are talking about Saurfang i might as well point out his duel against Varian or all the ââhuman can fight orc equal to equalââ crap.
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You donât understand: Elune was introduced as a night elf deity long before the taurenthings. MuâSha is not another deityâŚits the same deity, but a different name for this deityâŚElune is the most common name for this deity, this make the name MuâSha not wrong! its simple another name for the same thing.
, MuâSha, AnâShe, all that came later, the main deity of the Tauren has always been the Earth Mother (Introduced btwâŚin wc3, the earth mother)
Night elves have been treated as such since their introduction, not just become such, with bfa. Thatâs why I donât understand your criticism, it wasnât introduced later, it was part of their theme since they were integrated into the whole setting.
varian, buffed with the litteraly power of goldrinâŚwas able to defeat garrosh, yes.
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I thought about that as I was typing (someone else mentioned it to me once before, I think) but looking at their buildings, they give off more of a Hobbit shire vibe in my opinion, so I felt I would have been disingenuous if I counted that.
Edit: Theyâre also not really their own separate playable race. I wouldnât want to count the Broken for that reason either.
Youâre right about the buildings, though Dwarves were given Wildhammer customization options in Shadowlands.
Legit question. How does Anâshe take away from Elune here? Faelia and I love the idea of a more carefree god who functions more on passion than duty. A god who loves music and the experience of existence and wants nothing more than to see how the universe progresses on its own. That personality and dominion strikes a completely different tone than what we know of Elune. So, he canât be taking from her on that front.
So, is it the sun/moon dynamic? Even as twins, Apollo and Artemis were two separate beings that were independent with their own personalities and cults. Apollo didnât represent the hunt, he represented music. Artemis didnât represent light, but the wilderness. Apollo distributed prophecies that all of Greece heeded. Meanwhile, Artemis strived to assist women in childbirth. They didnât take from one another in those regards. Sure, they shared some aspects, like archery and healing, but their differences far outweighed their similarities. The Shinto Kami Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu are similarly siblings, yet are shown to have completely different worldviews to the point Amaterasu refuses to be in the sky at the same time as him. They are separate, but that canât mean there canât be a relationship between the two as these two solar/lunar duos show.
Is it the actual connection between the two that irks you? Do you not like gods having relationships with one another? If so, I got bad news for you once the First Ones are formally introduced and she is forced to interact with her peers.
Is it just having another big name god present? If so, again youâre going to have a bad time when the First Ones show up.
Is it having a race they favor? If so, then beings like the Loa and Naaru already tread upon that.
Is it because they would likely share some space due to how Warcraftâs cosmology is set up (Light, Fel, Void, Death, Life, Arcane)? If so, youâre naturally stifling the other First Ones anyhow, since Elune has shown to have some sway over life, death, arcane, void, and light. Even if the Earthmother was a separate being we used instead of Anâshe, youâd run into the same issue.
So, in detail. How does a sun god take away from a moon goddessâs âuniquenessâ?
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The motive with which this whole thread starts is really just to create a counter deity to Elune. Since it was confirmed that Elune is a true deity, the topic has come up again and again. In many forms. Strangely enough, Iâve never seen an alliance thread ask for a counterpart for Bwonsamdi, or for Rezan 
But then it got crazy, they actually tried to link everything to AnâShe with Eluneâs connection here and there, to the point that they even wanted to remove the Naaru theme from Elune. Eluneâs diversity and âconnection pointsâ are part of her myth. The universally worshipped deity, about whom one actually knows nothing, one actually only learns something through a thousand corners and who is apparently worshipped under many names, that is part of her exclusive theme, we have no other charakter in this setting like her, so yes, its exclusive right now.
If you now build exactly the same, exactly the same, yes, then you take uniqueness from the character and the themes that it has. And even if AnâShes character would be different, so how he behaves, his THEMES would be overlapping.
Full stop.
Aessina, the wild god that gave Night Elves the ability to persist as wisps after their death.
Malorne (Or Cenarius depending on how you want to spin it), leader of the Pantheon of wild gods and maintains a deep relationship with the leader of people.
There can be multiple of these. There is no rule against this. Different people worship different things, be it the moon, the sun, the sky, the sea, or the earth.
So, is it worship Elune or go home? Do the other First Ones not receive worship because thatâs an Elune thing?
Bad news mate. First Ones exist. Sheâs sharing the stage.
Is it? Because now we have precedent that sharing themes doesnât mean squat. By your logic, Rukhmar is intruding on Malorneâs turf by simple being a wild god who favors the leader of a race.
Thatâs lunacy.
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Both are older then bwonsamdi, aessina was first mentiod in wc3
rezan is arguably a malorne copy in his function as leader of the loapantheon of zandalar, so again a bad example, because there are wild god of Hyjal Themes copied, not visa versa.^^
Arenât you disproving your own point? I feel like you just demonstrated that thereâs no need for alliance fans to ask for their own version of Bwonsamdi and Rezan because they already have them. Their issues are that theyâre underutilized or their characterization sucks, which is a different topic.
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The Whispmother is now really not a good comparison with Bwonsamdi. Neither in focus, nor in screentime, nor in the concept of what she stands for.
That the gods of the Hyjal are absolutely washed out by now, that they were Horde-neutral even in CataâŚI mean, no Horde member ever complained about that, but with the Zandalari Loa, you naturally expect them to behave in a hostile manner towards the Alliance.I am not arguing for the alliance or the horde here, but to point outâŚhow hypocritical this discussion is by the way.
The hordeplayer demand their own âeluneâ version, after getting everything from the alliance-pantheonâŚto the point some horde even argueâŚclearly alliance leaning deitys should be âremainâ neutralâŚand i´m biased here?
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I figure people are just asking for something to feel connected to, using story hints and implications that already exist in-game. Aessina and Malorne donât mean that much to me. Hell, not even Yseraâs death and partial rebirth did all that much for me, although apparently Iâm an outlier in that regard.
Iâm not going to say Iâm unbiased, but it doesnât sound like you are either. And while IN A VACUUM I can see how a story of âour gods are fakeâ could be a compelling plot point, I think that would be a particularly lousy one to write in WoW where so many of them already arenât, for a race that already plays second-fiddle at best, and especially if weâre talking about future content that will explore more spiritual and cosmological themes.
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That is not what is being said at all. Anâshe can favor the Tauren, sure. He can favor a lot of races, just like Elune does. Heâs a universal spanning deity as a First One, itâs kind of a natural progression that ALL of them are going to share.
Elune was the spring board for the idea, but most of our ideas are based in our understanding on Anâshe via lore or fun headcanon to give him a character and a personality. In fact, there has been a genuine effort to look at various solar deities for inspiration from their myths and aspects.
Nothing beyond that even ties to Elune beyond the sun/moon schtick, potentially being siblings, being a part of the same pantheon as she is, and potentially assisting her in the creation of things like the Naaru. Youâre the one who seems to be hellbent on tying the two together. In response, plenty of us have taken suggestions from one another (Including you) to make them as different as possible while respecting both themes.
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There is really no discussion having with someone that always come back to wc3 as a reason for why the alliance should have MORE.
Yeah we get it. Warcraft was a overly human and night elf biased story that gave everything two those 2 race alone. The thing is this is WoW, a 2 faction game that need to have some balance between them. The alliance shouldnât still have all important god, all important mage while having the most important character of nearly every class. Horde do exist and have the right to have something on par with them.
This thread start to be exactly like those thread asking for the night elf to have haft of Kalimdor and the human nearly all of eastern kingdom with the only argument being ââit was alliance in wc3!!!ââ.
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I really donât think we need an Alliance Bwonsamdi. Please no
He literally just thinks any equivalent to Elune shouldnât exist. Heâs stated this multiple times in the thread. Itâs weird and degen.
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