Post on your mage. I have mythic raid exp on mage as well as pvp experience. Mage doesn’t come close to rogue bloat
I don’t have to be currently playing the class to have an opinion on it.
Playing a mage isn’t playing a piano. I suggest BM hunter if you find mage buttons too much.
Not wrong.
If you want to talk pathetic we can talk about green and grey heroic logs
Lol sick burn
No one’s saying Fire doesn’t have a skill ceiling, just that it has comparatively few core rotational buttons. Managing those is pretty much the complexity of the spec - not a good or bad thing just arguably a different playstyle than many other keybind-heavy core rotations.
Just adding my view to the many that I personally think that there is too much complexity for me for most classes, and the reason is that I don’t enjoy watching timers and weakauras. I want to be able to look at the game itself and not have to contantly concentrate on a plethora of things happening on the user interface.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I absolutely loved playing mage in season 1 before the rework with the simple, flowing rotation, and the rework completely ruined it for me.
I absolutely understand that some players like to be able to have skill expression, and many feel that for that, the class needs to be complex to min-max. I don’t have an issue with that, but I do wish they would organise talents and choice nodes in such a way as to make a far more simple build for the different specs in the game viable.
For me, the problem comes when there are no more simple, passive options, or when playing a class more simply would be too great a loss. Gaining no more than 10% damage by making something far more convoluted seems like a reasonable figure to me, but I recognise this will differ for many people. I found it heartening to see that the devs seemed to be bringing more of these choice nodes in for some classes.
I know many people on the forums and discord servers tend to be the players who play at a higher level and tend towards skill expression, but the number of players who gravitate towards the few remaining easier specs in the game tells me that I’m not alone in enjoying more simple rotations.
I currently feel limited to playing either destro warlock, BM or dev. It would be nice to feel like I could have more choice to play the class fantasies I love.
Spending an hour or two on a training dummy will fix that. You shouldn’t be staring at your bars either way.
There should be a penalty for playing all
Passives and that is lower damage.
Someone playing passives shouldn’t be rewarded the same as someone playing actives.
The majority of the forums posters do not play at the higher end.
BM and ret have always had higher popularity.
There are classes that have simple rotations and there are classes that don’t. If you want easy play the classes that are easy.
You can also change the way you do your keybind s.
Firstly, absolutely LOVING the post which literally just came through from blizzard.
’ * Simplify rotational complexity.
Provide tools to help you adapt your damage profile to better match a given encounter.
Provide competitive choice nodes that let you opt-out of complex gameplay.’
Now that sounds like a really good set of aims. Literally feels like someone at Bliz just read my post and then quickly posted that message. 
Are you suggesting that a player should intuitively know when 30, 45, and 60 second cooldowns come off their timers without having any trackers or weakauras to tell you? Or without anything showing you when you have a buff or a proc?
Imagine playing with a completely hidden UI, and no weakauras tracking 50 things.
Sounds like we are in agreement.
You mean like frost mage? Oh wait, that one was ruined for me.
Sorry, you have missed my point. It’s nothing to do with keybinds - I have plenty of them. It’s to do with how much you need to track and rotational complexity in terms of timers, procs, priorities and so on.
"Allow you to acquire each specialization’s core gameplay with less talent point investment.
Simplify rotational complexity.
Provide tools to help you adapt your damage profile to better match a given encounter.
Provide competitive choice nodes that let you opt-out of complex gameplay."
"Frost
With the exception of a few talents, which we’re looking to address, we’re feeling good about Frost’s gameplay and tree. Our first batch of changes for Frost will be small in scope, and targeted at adding a new build that should reminiscent of the Deathborne playstyle from Shadowlands, while also freeing up some talent points.
Thank you for your continued feedback, and we’re excited to hear more from you in the weeks to come."
I’m saying you don’t need to look at action bars for that information. Most people use weakauras to customize their ui.
And most people hated the no ice lance build
I played when it was still the ice lance build - frostbolt, flurry, ice lance, ice lance.
I don’t understand your initial response then. I specifically said in my post that I didn’t like enjoying watching timers and weakauras, not bars, and that I wanted to look at the game itself not the interface.
Completely agree. I do like fire mage though, but yeah the other hybrid casters are much more engaging I think
I just threw up in my mouth a little. Nothing should be brought in from SL. It is the worst expansion to date both from both story and gameplay perspectives. Blizzard would do better to just pretend that expansion doesn’t exist. How about actually fixing the spec, rather than listening to a streamer who said they liked that gameplay.
I don t think we would agree some day, but even me who liked the former mage gameplay with fb, flurry 2x lance…is not happy that they rly want to dig out the boring ONLY FB +shatter gameplay again.
Better bring something rly new and pls Blizzard don’t stick to the only FB gameplay.
If they tune it a bit (less ramping, fractured frost hitting 5-8 targets, put another spell into gameplay and let it play like former frost before rework…THEN it could be ok, but then it would be no Deathborne gameplay anymore.
Its rly the same as +again+ destroying Dalaran.
It seems they are out of ideas or creative heads.
Get out
/10char
I’m out of binds! I have no room for new spells and I bound my caps lock to my alt key to unlock another 9 binds with capslock+asd capslock+qwe and capslock+23 and capslock+spacebar. Capslock+1 is too hard to press.
I literally have focus 123, decurse 123, poly 123, ss 123, cs 123, focus ice nova, focus slow, bound plus all the other abilities except those I don’t want to play like mass poly/snowdrift/ring of fire. I also have focus poly and focus ss for open world and random BGs.
I have no room for new binds, I suggest they remove icelance for frostbolt build. I wouldn’t miss comet storm, ray or frostbomb either. I would gladly drop those for 20% frostbolt damage. They could also merge orb+blizzard into 1 ability where after you place orb, it unlocks blizzard on the same bind. And if orb is on cooldown, it defaults to blizzard. Also, I feel like they can make frost nova a ranged spell also, where if used at more than 12 yards it only lasts 3 seconds like ice nova and defaults to a ranged spell. They would have to give all mages 2 charges of frost nova and make sure if the frost nova was used at range it didn’t DR because ice nova doesn’t currently DR frost nova. That way we can remove ice nova. Clearly the developers are not thinking about this because ice nova is literally listed in some of the hero talents 
and sun fury adds a new stun bind.
This was the only time I PvEd and I loved the no ice lance build as a PvPer in PvE. Was easy as hell to sim too because it did not have a complicated rotation.
Less talent points does not mean less abilities. There are only 2-3 abilities in the frost tree - comet, ray of frost and glacial is irrelevant to death borne build because we didn’t take glacial anyways. Comet was optional as a PvPer already. There is also icy veins and flurry but those are a prerequisite. Orb and ice lance are so high in the tree I can’t see them removing them, both are pretty good in PvP. Orb gets rogues out, and icelance the capstone allows you to DPS when melee is on you and while you are on the move. I couldn’t see them removing them to create less keybinds. The only talents that would create less keybinds would be comet+ray and possibly frost bomb for PvP.
It was not my opinion.
Only a quote 
And i agree. I still hope we will have more than 1 fine playstyle in the next addon.
Not again super boring glacial :< we have that now AGAIN+sigh+.
I miss rly NEW innovative gameplay. Not only the same old again and again and again.
Okay true, yea, well the crazy thing about less talent points is, it can be even worse, because it lets you put those points in other abilities you couldn’t get previously instead of passives lol.
Yeah not many people enjoyed the braindead that was no ice lance
It definitely was braindead, but it allowed easy entry into PvE at a high level for those who were not into PvE. Simming and rotations were so easy anyone with half a brain could play at the highest level. I don’t PvE at all and I loved that lol. It allowed me obtain a couple of haste rings that were only 3 ilvl less than PvP gear. Now it’s irrelevant with crafted gear. I’ve not PvEd this whole expansion and I don’t plan on it, the rotations are complex and the sims are even more stupid lol.
When Castle came out and the build switched to icelance weaving and complicated rotations, I quit PvE entirely. Most PvErs love min maxing like that. Personally I feel it should be around the game play and not so much the rotation. You don’t need to do high DPS to have a hard game.
Some of the hardest content can be pushing ZG cata last platform boss to last phase after your entire team dies by weaving through ghosts. Kiting vanilla spellmaw at level 58 with perfect blinks to everlook in which you have only fireblast damage. AoE ziggurats/all ZG crocs with cone/nova only. Faxmonkey also had some cool challenges, there use to be forum posts about. Solo challenges are actually impossible to find now, the game has such a short leash in open world(75yards?) and players have so many spells and movement abilities hard content simply does not exist lol. I feel like people just don’t care about challenging content anymore either. Now that everyone is older and has real life. No one games hardcore now days. It’s all about cooldown management, knowing the fights and rotation now. Though if blizzard wants to make their game popular again, they will make it the hardest game in the world while still having content for casuals. Hard doesn’t mean grinding for 12 hours farming mats. You can have a hard game by only play 6hours/week. Hard just means clever use of game mechanics/abilities/roles of players, where you have to be pro or the top 1% to complete your assignment. Things like dead zones, mob pathing, leeway, max range kiting could all be used for all roles. They would never do this though. There’s no way to get 20 people in a raid that are the top 1% unless you are already full clearing mythic every patch.
Crazy how we are no where near having the most difficult gameplay in the game that the WoW engine is capable of. It’s such a good engine, I just wish the developers understood that more.
A hard game doesn’t need more buttons,
complex rotations and more knowledge of fights, it just needs appropriately tuned mechanics, proper roles and movement. You should understand the roles needed for a fight after watching someone else complete fight 1 time. Blizzard could even release a tutorial video for each fight that raiders can watch pre fight. No need to read the adventure guide. All the tutorials now are about not standing in fire and trivial mechanics that don’t take skill but take fight knowledge. Skill is fireblast kiting where if you don’t use your fire blast or blink on cd the mob will 1 tap you or reset, deadzoning, mob pathing, etc. Developers think not standing in fire requires skill. When it’s all about interaction with their engine/mob that makes for a difficult game. Frost mage aoe is a great example. Like you could literally have a mage use clever use of mob pathing up and down stairs like locks do in vanilla Mara while other team mates complete other roles. If they did this though, they would have to implement a non hard mode, that grandmas could participate in. Ghostcrawler explained this several times too.