No, keeping them where they belong is better than letting people just overpower everything.
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Tanking is the easiest role in M+ and it’s not even close.
BFA tanking was hardest role. It is a joke now.
Not compared to the level of content you want mythic gear to drop from.
I get that people hyperbolize the difficulty required to get max level gear from the content types they don’t primarily play, but objectively there has always been significant teeth to the content that doles out max level gear. With the exception of highly random systems like Titanforging/Legion legendaries or expansion/season-long grinds for a specific slot, getting the max item level out of any form of content has never been braindead easy. Yes for someone whose standard of play is at the top of one content form, their floor might allow them to gain access to max item level from another content form. But for someone who isn’t at that level, it’s going to be significant effort to complete the content that awards max item level.
I’ve been pugging the first 3 on mythic and my groups usually down all 3 within an hour or 2 at worst case scenario.
By the logic of some of the posters on these forums early mythic raid is way too rewarding and should only be dropping hero gear at max.
Again some people are only here to start arguments for post count +1.
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The hard content should drop the best gear. 
I wouldn’t complain if they changed it. Tbh tho the few times I’ve been in there it was taking a bunch of tries or group breaks up super fast after the first try. Lol
Which was the equivalent of an 8+ in the new system… you donkey
I start my own group and generally avoid the apps that are 7/8M 8/8M that I assume are pugging because they were benched for the week. These people are almost always going to bail on a group for the most minor mistakes.
The 3/8M - 4/8M people with some kills are most likely to stick it out.
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What do you mean by this? The tank still decides the path, decides the pulls and holds enemy aggro. That is the role of the tank. The tank role was never designed to be a self-healing DPS that carries players. TWW is a return to the core principals of the role, and by extension, the core principals of group play.
Frustrating as it is, a DPS that dies due to the mechanics is simply not fulfilling the role of DPS – to do damage while navigating the mechanics of the encounter. It has never been the tank’s role to do everyone’s mechanics for them. It is not taking away your agency as a tank. It’s how group play used to work, and how it should work. Ditto DPS pulling mobs. They are not fulfilling their role properly. Group play is about everyone performing their roles – succeeding together or failing together. Not about one role being overtuned and carrying the rest.
The key level number doesn’t matter because they are meaningless out of context. What matters are the base level M0 tuning and the key modifiers.
That’s how we ended up with DF S3 +20s being significantly easier than a DF S1 +20.
I think you just might be my new favorite person on the forums.
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It is though?
- Group Composition/Utilities/Dungeon Specific
- Overall IO/Score
- Highest timed key for the dungeon being run
- Overall number of keys timed in the key level bracket
- ilvl
Data?
You’ve been making the argument that myth gear going from 8s to 10s is good because it allows you to filter out good from bad players based on ilvl.
Then proceed to give me an anecdotal story about how a well geared hunter in your 10 was terrible… in the current system that you’re arguing for… ya know, the one that should have prevented this according to you… and didn’t…
That’s your data?
I can’t with this anymore… also, just noticed your guild name… checks out.
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Context is important. This late in the season inconsequential because theyve removed a lot of the caos and made gearing faster
I claimed that if they made it easier to get gear out of the gate, this whole experience would be happening a lot more when people are actually pushing keys, not farming keys.
The data is how fast the current player base hits their gear plateau. It was happening fairly quickly (youre free to go check up on the graphs). That data coincides with my anecdotal experience.
Giving max gear at a lot sooner/faster rate would expidite that.
Wouldnt expect anyone who needs gear handed to them to actually understand the behind the scenes workings of the systems though
I was more poking fun at how a lot of people have very short memories. BFA wasn’t that long ago.
Like DFS3 being easier than DFS1 has little to do with scaling (there was a scaling change at some point before season 1 started, and another for keys over 20 in the second half of season 2) and everything to do with the prevalence of stops and the accumulation of nerfs to critical mechanics in “problem” dungeons, like AV. DH being able to solo-control packs indefinitely directly led to key inflation.
How does this lead to key inflation for the other 65% of groups that didnt involve a VDH for 20+ keys?
How does it have little to do with scaling when that literally determines the difficulty? They key scaling might not change from season to season, but the base M0 tuning does and is a major factor.
We saw that this season when they nerfed Stitchflesh’s base tuning.
Exactly! Nerf the tanks, definitely will force DPS to respect tank pathing and not randomly pull extra mobs gurenteeing key depletions due to their massive ego’s causing baby rage quits thanks to the innevitable wipes that causes. SURELY when that happens, they will look inward, and realize it was their fault and evolve their playstyle and behavior, SURELY they wont just type some variant of “dumb tank” or “healer bad” and leave when the now nerfed tank cant tank a little harder to handle their idiocy.
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This kind of mentality only works for ppl lucky or determined enough to have a dedicated group to play with, and everyone cares about their role and all it entails. This state only works for those that work as a team because you will let your freinds down if you dont. 9 times out of 10 that doesnt work in pugs because of the nature of that environment.
In a world where LFG exists, pug groups are a dime a trillion, everyone is just a faceless number in a sea of crowds of faces. It is inadvertsntly supported by the nature of how LFG works to not give a crap about anyone in the group but yourself, which in lowwer keys is fine you an simply out gear those. But in higher keys, it leads to an insta-brick the moment one of those solo-Q DPS decides to pull another mob to try and pressure a little more IO score out of that nameless tool they are following about, and innevetably flame and leave when it causes a wipe.
The only universe in which it makes sense to not allow tanks to be the linchpin of the group as they were, is a universe in which LFG is removed entirely. Force groups to be formed organically, and then i agree that tanks should be brought down to balanced levels. However, as long as LFG exists, as long as pugging exists, there needs to be an individual player who can deal with it when the proverbial crap hits the fan, otherwise casuals like myself will simply stop engaging. Its not fun to deplete 3-4 out of every 5 attempts because some DPS thought they knew better and i couldnt handle it the consequences.
or i would simply accept that it’s out of my skill range and i won’t get it. why is that an incomprehensible way of thinking around here?
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Too many word
Buff tank dmg/durability
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