M+ System Fix..for both MDI and the casual fanboy

Please take this idea with the intent that I am seeking to improve a system. As we know now, many players including myself have quit WoW. I recently came back as a check with 9.1.5 to see if these small changes are indeed worth the time and cost of resubbing. Currently, no, it falls far short and nothing fundamental has changed within the game to entice myself, my wife, and a few RL friends to return to WoW.

The biggest issue is not world quests, while tasky and chore like, they are fine for gearing up newer characters and having something to do in the game if needed. Our biggest issue is the dungeon system, M+ in particular. The sense of having any progression for my fantasy character is too stressful and for many such as my wife and a friend with some cognitive issues, too hard.

We are unable to really get past anything more than 9 or 10+. the BIG limiter here is the timer. The difficulty of content is engaging, however having to do said difficulty based on a timer make it null and void. I want the golden era of dungeon feeling back. That being (yes, we were all naive and baddies, but the feeling was great) of having to use more strategy, using our CCs, and reacting to problems as they occur. Why does this matter…here we go.

I would like the M+ system to reverse the timer. By this I mean have it count upwards. The dungeon has limitless time and the party can take 10 min for you super players or 10 hours for those who struggle. The catch is the groups receive the same rewards and the same progression key afterwards. Calm down…please keep reading.

Why this is important for us bad players, it allows me to continue to progress my character and help those less powerful or skillful as I to progress theirs as well. I will not feel trapped with having a lesser player as no matter what, I can still PUG a run or carry somebody without fear of losing anything. YES!!! no punishment from WoW…simply amazing. this system is all reward and encouragement.

This system works for skilled/great players as they can still progress much more quickly than myself and those of my level. Also with this system I will eventually regardless of the time…hit my ceiling. the content will simply either be too difficult or vastly too time consuming to attempt. yes we both complete lets say a 15+ and both groups are awarded a 16 key, however your group crushed it in 30 min and mine took hours. the only loss here is the time I WAS WILLING to put into it. this should help alleviate some of the toxicity and promote players to tank as well.

This system also allows the MDI to be competitive as a timer still exist, they still must 'beat" the other team to win, no loss here with the system. Blizzard can also add achievements/titles/pets/toys for either completing say a 20, good luck casuals…regardless of time your gear and skills matter at that level. (sounds fun to me…I like being challenged, I don’t like being told that a timer dictates my fantasy/relaxation time in a game.)

This type of system still rewards skilled players for completing them quickly…say you beat it in 30 min or whatever a +3 timer is currently, you can still upgrade your key to that level. you should be rewarded an extra chest or loot at the end. I accept and even praise those that do. We know this system is easily implemented based on Thorghast having a built in scoring system based on clearance and time.

I know, I know…we can technically do a 15 now and take 16 hours and get a piece of loot and a s#!t gamble lootery from the vault. We the current system DOES NOT do is allow me to attempt that 15 or 16 again, it does not allow me simply go into a dungeon (as is the point of MMORPGs, to be a fantasy game of progression and power) and fight my way through. The entire point of the system is to promote participation, make players unafraid of failure since their time is NOT wasted in that dungeon/difficulty level. They get to say they beat a 15 and now have a key for a 16 to keep progressing and trying to improve themselves. This slower play for us casual noobs also teaches us mechanics better firsthand rather than massive pulls or stuff getting nuked down, i die instantly and learn nothing, the group yells and berates disbands leaving me with a depleted key of a lower level praying that i do not waste another 20-30 minutes of my time. People can not say that excluding a vast majority of the player base from obtaining cap gear from 15s is good. we all know and see people pushing 20s and soon 30s…so the bragging self reassurance of M+ is their as anything past 15 nets nothing. let players play and enjoy, let them gain gear, who cares how slow and long it takes.

TL:DR
timers count up, players can still do hardest content regardless of their time to get higher level loot, eventually hitting their ceiling. Skilled/geared/MDI players can still be the best of the bestest now running 30s and maybe even 40s. Competitive environment remains. RIO not really needed but still track-able as well. Players ( I know my Wife and friend included) wont feel like a detriment to a team thus increasing both their content in game and giving them a reason to attempt harder content.

I’d love to go into more detail, discuss it, improve on it, but from my experience, any game with a countdown timer tends to exclude more than include.

7 Likes

no.

17 Likes

so you want keys to always upgrade even after 4 hours?

1 Like

^

  

6 Likes

Oh. Dear. God. No.

6 Likes

thats one big wall of text. got a tl:dr?

I rarely fail a key due to the timer.

In fact, I think folks likely make a bigger deal than necessary about the timer.

If you just ignore the fact there is a timer and just play, you’ll likely enjoy yourself a lot more.

As long as the group is moving forward through the dungeon at any semblance of a reasonable pace the timer will never be an issue(except some horrible affix combos).

5 Likes

This enables (even more than the game already has) players that don’t want to progress or improve. Enabling lazy players that think pressing 1 button a fight is good is not good game design.

3 Likes

I agree completely! :+1: The button is either auto shoot or barrage, depending on how I’m feeling that day.

2 Likes

M+ pugging is absolutely terrible in SL.

People are toxic and I would say more than 50% of the pugs I join don’t complete for one reasons or another. It doesn’t matter the key level - these are some of the worst dungeons in WoW history, with many annoyances scattered throughout the dungeons and with rewards that have never been worse.

Needs a fix of some sort - the game is dead.

4 Likes

So to add a rebuttal beyond simply “No” (which I do agree with).

The existence of a timer is specifically to AVOID situations like you elaborated where you spend 16 hours or whatever in a 15 slugging it out.

The nature of M+ which has partial progression as opposed to a raid boss which is all or nothing, you beat it or you don’t, means that even if you do really, really poorly you can still struggle across the finishing line.

You still get gear and vault progress from beating it because fairs fair, but if you’re spending more than the time allotted for a key, you’re really not ready for anything above it.

The only thing that can physically stop you from beating a M+ is being literally brickwalled by a single boss. We saw this fairly frequently early in legion M+ where the 10 affix was Tyrannical/Fortified (and much spicier than the current versions) and bosses would literally one shot you with no ability to play around it and that would be the only way your run could realistically end.

It would be a cruelty, not a kindness, to return to a system where that is the norm for determining how far a player can climb and not the timer.

7 Likes

I have a little bit of sympathy to this. The casual old farts guild I’m in lost a handful of players early on due to the difficulty in M+ and raid.

But the timer is fundamental to what the challenge is. Without the timer the challenge would need to get re balanced to be like a raid where if you can’t time a key then you wont be able to even complete it.

Personally I think the solution is along the lines of things discussed here:

Basically I think the combat has become visually non intuitive and overwhelming for a lot of player. Especially if they’re not using gaming mice with extra buttons. And I think there is way too much “in the know” one off gimmicks with the mechanics and affixes that are again, non intuitive. So you have to dig through logs and go to external websites to figure out what just happened and how to counter it.

The game is no longer about perfecting and optimizing your rotation but trying to fit it into the constant game of run out of circle which is more frustrating and anxiety inducing than fun for a lot of players.

2 Likes

That sounds like a truly horrible way for keys to be

OP, the game is not designed for you. It is no longer a game for casual players who want to play together. It’s intended for hypercompetitive players who put together teams to win at all costs. There really is no place for you in this game. You will not be accepted by those who tell you they are playing the game right and you are playing it wrong.

1 Like

Absolutely not I am not interested in returning to the days of having to do a 4 hour dungeon let’s cc 90% of this pack and slowly kill them one by one

6 Likes

50%?! I pug and I think maybe < 10% of my keys actually get bricked for one reason or another. Are you sure this isn’t a “YOU” problem??

2 Likes

I find pugging in the 18+ range far less toxic than 10~15 range for some reason.

I’ll sell y’all boost for 100k

?
you can do lower M+ with friends/casual players/friends.
why do you need to push 15s or higher?

Stopped reading here- you use more strategy, CC, kicks, and reaction to problems as they occur due to time restraints than you would without. The difference between players who use and do not use those abilities correctly defines who makes it higher and who does not.

They become so important a lot of abilities will nearly one shot someone in your group if you do not use these kit items.

Needing to slow down to CC isn’t “skill”, but rather the lack of skill since you take longer to do what a better player does during combat and high stress situations.

1 Like