This. The casuals and the hardcore raiders were the chief architects of this mythic + rework and now they are the first to cry about it.
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The trend went up.
Now the devs are going to pat themselves on the back, regardless of whether players are finding the content enjoyable or not.
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feral not bear
Want to give a source on your numbers? I assume RIO but no clue where/how you collected that data.
Dataforazeroth has:
Keystone Explorer: 8.7%
Keystone Conquerer: 5.2%
Keystone Master: 3.3%
Keystone Hero: 0.7%
Obviously they arenât perfect, no source except Blizzard will be, but thatâs a pretty big discrepancy between your claimed numbers and theirs. Also Historically KSM for accounts we see 20%-30% of accounts range on DFA. DF had 2 seasons that hit 30% but 2 below. SL was all ~20%. BFA they were all sub 5% and bounced to 16% when they added the mount.
So if we are looking at those numbers only having 9% even time a key isnât good. Only having 3% have KSM is really really REALLY bad. Usually at least half of accounts that will get KSM have already gotten it by now and then the rest trickle in over the remaining weeks.
Tuning is CLEARLY an issue based on DFA numbers. Youâre numbers are based on those doing M+ and excludes those that either donât have Raider IO, and those that tried M0 and decided they would either not do it or wait till there were nerfs. The outcry from those that are trying certainly isnât helping things as people wonât attempt M+ until itâs better balanced, which it currently isnât judging by the forums and the DFA numbers.
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Dataforazeroth is wrong by a huge margin and I assume their numbers are factoring in all the players who donât touch M+ at all or the numbers they populated are from like week 1.
https://raider.io/mythic-plus/cutoffs/season-tww-1/us
DF S4: 33.4%
DF S3: 34.8%
DF S2 data is corrupted. (Number of characters is off)
DF S1 data is corrupted. (Number of characters is off)
SL S4: 35.8%
SL S3: 22.8%
Tuning is clearly not an issue because my argument isnât centered solely on KSM percentages. The other major factor I discussed was the ilvl gap and Season 1s being historically the hardest due to starting off without tier, embellishments, and trinkets.
Edit: I looked into how dataforazeroth gets their metrics and they are definitely calculating all recently active accounts that are public and those that donât even do M+. Using those numbers is highly inaccurate for this discussion.
It is well proved in both this game and other games that what happens is most players just give up. Even blizzard admitted as much back in Ghostcrawlers day when he said that this was one of the problems in Cata when they tuned heroics much harder after wrath. They expected the playerbase to get better, what they got was sub loss.
Maybe they could make the player base better if they increased difficulty very very slowly over many seasons but big spikes like cata or the current season always lead to large participation drops.
Yup, totally fair.
Speaking of seasonal fluctuation, I wonder how this will translate into S2.
If enough people get burned and just dip they might actually end up with even worse numbers despite whatever tuning they put forth.
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This right here. Idk why people think they need to be able to do what the top players are capable of. You either have time and skill or you dont to achieve this in barely a month into the season.
Hot take I guess but not everybody needs / deserves full BiS mythic track gear.
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I mean this is a fairly predictable result, and was predictable from the moment the changes to keys in DF S4 were announced. Anyone who found a home in the first 3 weeks of a season in +2 - +11 keys before the change was going to be in other content getting gear. Then once they got the gear to be able to bridge the gap to the new M+ entry point, theyâll find themselves in M+ again.
So⌠what you are saying is that, the keys are good?
Since mythic gear isnât free gear because keys in DF was historically really, REALLY easy?
Sounds like things are working quite well in that case!
Seriously, anyone who wants to can get to a +10 but they have to work for it. Thatâs kinda the point of M+ as a progression system.
Youre absolutely right. Full hero gear from delves is enough to do anything in the game. People just dont like having the biggest armor being locked behind skill that they cant/wont achieve. A good example of this is 10 keys where people die for 3-4 hours for a mythic vault.
M+ didnât get harder. In fact with all the terrible affixes remove keys are easier.
It was only mythic gear that got shifted to a higher difficulty. People can still run +7âs and avoid difficult content if they like.
If youre running 8s you have the ability to get into mythic gear level. Crests and infinitely farmable heroic level gear is the most rewarding structure in the game.
I think an m0 is pretty doable at that level⌠Weâre routinely timing 6s - 7s with 2 or 3 580-590 folks. (Obvioisly thatâs in a premade with a couple of 610+ folks).
In a pug full of sub 610s with a 580 or 2, I see no reason a m0 couldnât be done. Probably even up to a 4ish keyâŚ
I disagree with this statement, at least if we arenât including getting carried as âworking for it.â There are players whose skill level will not allow them to reach a +10 with all the gear available to the content they are able to complete. Itâs just not correct that the only thing standing between all players and reaching a given level of proficiency in the game is just working harder at it. Yes, a lot of people artificially cap their own ceilings by not putting in the effort; but there will always be players who genuinely do put in the effort but wonât reach those levels despite their best attempts.
But what that doesnât mean is that all rewards should be available to all players regardless of the level of content they can complete. The idea some players have that if they just put enough time into much lower difficulty content they should get the best rewards in the game is also misguided. Not being able to get all rewards should be an acceptable situation for all players.
The thing about WoW is that its mechanics are simple enough where anyone can do it. But people have to put in the effort and for those who canât get further despite their own best efforts, they have to take a different route. Namely to learn why their best efforts isnât enough and whether or not they want to change it.
Of course thereâs edge cases where for an examples disabilities will be more or less debilitating. So thatâs a given that one cannot include a literal âeveryoneâ when I say that everyone can do it. But, anyone who is (able see the aforementioned comment about disabilities) and willing to learn how to do it? Yeah⌠anyone willing can do it.