M+ Participation is probably up this week but

This content is designed to be a skill check and force people to get better at working as a team and communicating. The whole intent behind the tank and healer changes seems to be team oriented. This might mean that requiring someone call things out in a discord or voice coms in game is the new norm for 10+.

Adapt and improve for this level of content as 10 is supposed to be geared more towards Mythic skilled raiders now.

It is wholly intentional to bring it up to par with this level of difficulty and bring it in line.

Or… wait it out and wait for nerfs and buffs to the content and classes that might help on top of slowly getting any upgrades you can.

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Sounds like some people used to be getting gear that wasn’t warranted to their skill level.

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Who cares, play better if you want mythic loot.

“Tuning isn’t the problem”
Then why did blizzard just nerf NW like 5 times with huge 30% nerfs?
At the end of the day it’s a video game, not your life.

7 Likes

I really dislike the heroic and mythic gear gap.

Before I’m like “meh whatever”

But now I have friends that are gearing up and look forward to mythic. But it’s like there is a week or so in between depending on your luck in outside content now.

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I track interrupts. They are not even pushing the button.

In a typical “good” run that lasts 25ish minutes my groups have 50 to 80 interrupts. Varies by dungeon but that is a lot of casts that are being kicked at a mid level key. That doesnt include the long list of stuns, knocks and CCs being used to stop casts. Its beyond excessive how many deafly casts there are in dungeons now.

There are top level M+ players complianing about the same types of things. Bosses with too many mechanics, silly levels of unavoidable group damage, trash that white swings tanks to death, etc.

580 ilvl isn’t undergeared.

Does m0 even drop higher than 580? lol.

It isn’t really. People wanted freer loot, Blizzard obliged.

What exactly is the problem with this? You have two options really get better and do them or don’t.

You are generalizing one boss to the entirety of M+. Tuning isn’t a problem as a whole.

I hear you. I see the priority in an m+ like this:
Stay Alive
Do Mechanics
Interrupt
Move out of bad stufg
Stay alive
Stay alive
DPS

Yes, dps is important but stuff will die anyway, and one can be carried, but if you are not doing the things
in the list that come before dps, don’t bother queing.

How can everyone know random M+ players are highly unreliable then come here and complain about it without a solution? Pounding your head against random M+ won’t make it any better, especially when Blizzard is fully intent on destroying the rando carry capability.

You want smooth runs? Find a group. Unable to commit? Welcome to the chaos that is random players. They’ve always been chaotically bad and there’s a good chance you’re part of the problem for participating in that madness.

Heroic drops 580, mythic 0 drops 593.

Summed up pretty nice.

I hate pugging, one wipe and most likely one will leave and will auto brick the key, no GV slot and a general waste of time.

And the counterpart is the same as you mentioned, less friends even bothering to come online, much less their desire to do M+ for me to run a full guild/friend key.

3 Likes

I two chested a +2 at 563 with no tier and only items bought on the AH a couple of days ago in a pug just to see if I could do it. Its possible although I got unlucky in the maze and got several double guardian packs. Most pulls went ok although one of them one shot me when I was out of CD’s. I wouldn’t say I was carried but it put all of my skills to the test needing to be on top of interrupts, stuns, and defensive cd’s.

I’ll link the toon to show I’m not lying.
https://raider.io/characters/us/area-52/Ragn%C3%B6k

I decided to go back to M0 and try those instead and as long as you are not pulling entire wings like we did in heroics these were pretty easy. In fact I can’t remember a time where any pulls ever felt threatening despite pulling 4+ packs at times. The one group that fell apart was an Ara-Kara where the group wiped except me and the boss had 25% health left and I took a bit of time to see how fast I could solo it. It would take way to much time so I had to drop prot stance and turn my back to the boss (and it still took nearly 10 seconds to die) but by than the healer had rage quit for me wasting time…

I think people are expecting way to much in M0’s we were doing these on release with fresh alts in many cases only a month ago.

Thats ok with me but you are hurting yourself by not playing with skilled players who don’t need the gear to complete the content. Low level dungeons like this are the perfect place to scout for talented people who might be looking for a M+ team or maybe even a stable raid team.

Its pinnacle content. If they arent then thats on them. Pugging you take that risk.

im not moving any goal post… i successfully failed into getting ksm week 2 or 3 and im not even the top 5% of m+ players. i forgot which week it was.

the amount of time in doesnt matter if the amount of people are more than geared for it and are still stuck at it. pugging is the worse this season than its ever been. anyone complaining about ksm is probably pugging. lets say tuning isnt the problem and getting blasted by white damage and dying as a tank or web bolts just wrecking you isnt a tuning issue then this is by far the least fun season of m+ since shadowlands season 1. either way changes need to be made as it feels like there trying to ruin m+ so they can push mythic raiding

i had a tank for a 7 threads who was 587. sure he had problems at the first boss but we finished the key only slightly over time cause of his trouble on the first boss but if he thinks 580s arent for m0 then heroic might be to much for him

i love how in city of threads on a 11 i have to go bear use barkskin and regen just so i dont die to the pulse on the 3rd boss. things arent overtuned i just have to casually use 3 defensives to survive incoming damage

thats the problem this season doing damage is the lowest priority in keys. doing mechanics and staying alive is far more important since theres so much unavoidable damage

not at this level they havent. i usually get multiple alts running up to 7s for heroic gear/ the equivalent in the past this season i have my main which i dont pug on at all and my 1 alt that i just this week decided to try some pugs again and i refuse to go above a 5 because i cant trust people enough

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You can get yourself to 623 just doing 8s. This is more than enough to do 10s.

I’ve pugged 95% of my dungeons so far. Should hit 2500 this week, the two biggest issues i have come accross on 10’s are people being mechanically deficient and low dps. At the end of most dungeons I’ll be top dps at between 1.4 to 1.6 millions dps and then the 3rd dps are sitting at like 900dps.

Mechanic deficiency goes for every spec and role too. I’ve had great healers, great tanks and great dps. But rarely do you get all three haha. But I accept that as a fact of life pugging, I will do my best but sometimes the rest of the party just doesn’t add up. I still do not leave though, I would rather we finish the dungeon and hopefully people learn the full dungeon better and get better at that dungeon.

To me the biggest toxicity are people just straight up leaving the dungeon if they don’t think they can time it. At least get your clear in so you can get your vault upgraded.

Just know if you decide to do the PUG life, some days are better than others.

Meh, why though? What does the community as a whole have to gain from this stance?

You replied to my post which had nothing to do with specific key levels and you quoted only the last line in my post saying:

When it’s entirely disingenuous to say when the entire past month has been about people complaining about the difficulty in M0 and up.

Yes it does are you kidding me? How are you going to argue that we had higher KSH numbers in the past, but fail to see how numbers 1 month in versus 6-8 months in is a major factor? You don’t think KSM and KSH numbers go up over time? Rediculous.

I already explained very thoroughly why it “felt” hard initially, but isn’t.

It’s hilarious you are using +11s in your argument when Blizzard tunes things for top rewards which end at +10. Obviously the higher you go, the more you will have to do to survive mechanics. Also, “going bear” isn’t a defensive. That’s just shifting.